How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)

[Mrr T]

amusingduck said:

Mrr T said:

amusingduck said:

Mrr T said:

SunsetZed said:

Ok so let me respond in order.
1. Who in the vote leave campaign said this? Can you share your source please. I know he wasn't part of the official leave campaign but Farage said on more than one occasion we may leave with no deal and that would be better than staying in.

Nige claims he said this during the campaign but he is lying.

www.thejournal.ie/nigel-farage-no-deal-bbc-fact-ch...

your article said:

Farage did however use a version of this phrase during the referendum campaign to compare no deal to the UK’s current EU membership. On 3 June 2016, he said “Even if our friends in France and Italy decide to cut off their noses to spite their faces…it will better than the rotten deal we have now.” And on 8 June 2016, he said “no deal is better than the rotten deal that we’ve got at the moment.”

Another quote.

your article said:

In a clip from the Andrew Marr Show in November 2015, played on the programme on Sunday, Farage advocated for the benefits of a negotiated exit with the EU and suggested that the UK would have little difficulty securing its own tailored deal: “Iceland and Switzerland can get deals that suit them. We can do something far far better than that.”

:rolleyes :

You seem to be struggling, bold will help

Another quote.

your article said:

REXIT PARTY LEADER, Nigel Farage, has claimed that he coined the phrase “no deal is better than a bad deal” and used it repeatedly during the 2016 Brexit referendum when campaigning for the UK to leave the EU.

[Troubleatmill]

Why does Leave have to win two referendums, but Remain just one.

I don’t recall hearing

And if Remain had won do we genuinely believe they would be entertaining a second referendum.

Or a compromise?

[MDMetal]

Troubleatmill said:

Why does Leave have to win two referendums, but Remain just one.

I don’t recall hearing

And if Remain had won do we genuinely believe they would be entertaining a second referendum.

Or a compromise?

While that's true the real issue is that people supporting another vote have no answer for what happens if the we get the same outcome. The only reason they want another vote is because they think they'll win which is sort of fine if that's how they want to think, but if we get the same identical result with the current set of MPs then nothing changes. So another vote solves nothing because it's perfectly possible to get the same result.

[amusingduck]

Mrr T said:

amusingduck said:

Mrr T said:

amusingduck said:

Mrr T said:

SunsetZed said:

Ok so let me respond in order.
1. Who in the vote leave campaign said this? Can you share your source please. I know he wasn't part of the official leave campaign but Farage said on more than one occasion we may leave with no deal and that would be better than staying in.

Nige claims he said this during the campaign but he is lying.

www.thejournal.ie/nigel-farage-no-deal-bbc-fact-ch...

your article said:

Farage did however use a version of this phrase during the referendum campaign to compare no deal to the UK’s current EU membership. On 3 June 2016, he said “Even if our friends in France and Italy decide to cut off their noses to spite their faces…it will better than the rotten deal we have now.” And on 8 June 2016, he said “no deal is better than the rotten deal that we’ve got at the moment.”

Another quote.

your article said:

In a clip from the Andrew Marr Show in November 2015, played on the programme on Sunday, Farage advocated for the benefits of a negotiated exit with the EU and suggested that the UK would have little difficulty securing its own tailored deal: “Iceland and Switzerland can get deals that suit them. We can do something far far better than that.”

:rolleyes :

You seem to be struggling, bold will help

Another quote.

your article said:

REXIT PARTY LEADER, Nigel Farage, has claimed that he coined the phrase “no deal is better than a bad deal” and used it repeatedly during the 2016 Brexit referendum when campaigning for the UK to leave the EU.

You should start your own fact-checking website.

Claim: Nigel Farage coined the phrase "no deal is better than a bad deal"
Conclusion:100% false, Farage said no such thing.

Evidence: Farage said no deal is better than a rotten deal which is not verbatim

Isn't it nice to be informed? Give us some money!

[crankedup]

Fittster said:

digimeistter said:

crankedup said:

And I still can’t get it out of my head that people like grieve stood for election on a Conservative mandate that the U.K. must honour the 2016 referendum result, leave the E.U. Hypocrisy of the highest order, putting everything else to one side how can anybody trust people like him?

And some remainers still waffle on about democracy, incredible and utterly bereft of the meaning of the word.

He shouldn't even be an MP, he lost a vote of no confidence and has been de-selected.

The honorable thing would have been to stand down and call a by-election.

Clearly he has no honour and is clinging on to a position he really shouldn't be occupying anymore to attempt to derail Brexit by fair means or foul.

Contemptible individual.

Are MPs who support Brexit but who have lost a vote of confidence also contemptible?

Any MP that has lost a vote of confidence and deselected has effectively been sacked.

[crankedup]

Mrr T said:

digimeistter said:

He shouldn't even be an MP, he lost a vote of no confidence and has been de-selected.

The honorable thing would have been to stand down and call a by-election.

Clearly he has no honour and is clinging on to a position he really shouldn't be occupying anymore to attempt to derail Brexit by fair means or foul.

Contemptible individual.

The honourable thing would be for parties members to support their MP's.

I note Conservative members are not trying to deselect, IDS, DD, Foxy, Steve Baker, John Redwood, all of whom are not representing the views of their constituencies.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/poli...

That’s a bit of nonsense, these Tory MPs all stood on the manifesto platform. This infofrd electorates what the MP stood for and agreed with at the time of the GE.If those disagreed then it seems they voted for the wrong candidate. National referendum v whims of losers.

[SunsetZed]

crankedup said:

Mrr T said:

digimeistter said:

He shouldn't even be an MP, he lost a vote of no confidence and has been de-selected.

The honorable thing would have been to stand down and call a by-election.

Clearly he has no honour and is clinging on to a position he really shouldn't be occupying anymore to attempt to derail Brexit by fair means or foul.

Contemptible individual.

The honourable thing would be for parties members to support their MP's.

I note Conservative members are not trying to deselect, IDS, DD, Foxy, Steve Baker, John Redwood, all of whom are not representing the views of their constituencies.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/poli...

That’s a bit of nonsense, these Tory MPs all stood on the manifesto platform. This infofrd electorates what the MP stood for and agreed with at the time of the GE.If those disagreed then it seems they voted for the wrong candidate. National referendum v whims of losers.

With the notable exception of Ken Clarke who clearly told his constituents where he stood on Brexit and that he would not be supporting the manifesto on it.

[crankedup]

SunsetZed said:

crankedup said:

Mrr T said:

digimeistter said:

He shouldn't even be an MP, he lost a vote of no confidence and has been de-selected.

The honorable thing would have been to stand down and call a by-election.

Clearly he has no honour and is clinging on to a position he really shouldn't be occupying anymore to attempt to derail Brexit by fair means or foul.

Contemptible individual.

The honourable thing would be for parties members to support their MP's.

I note Conservative members are not trying to deselect, IDS, DD, Foxy, Steve Baker, John Redwood, all of whom are not representing the views of their constituencies.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/poli...

That’s a bit of nonsense, these Tory MPs all stood on the manifesto platform. This infofrd electorates what the MP stood for and agreed with at the time of the GE.If those disagreed then it seems they voted for the wrong candidate. National referendum v whims of losers.

With the notable exception of Ken Clarke who clearly told his constituents where he stood on Brexit and that he would not be supporting the manifesto on it.

Indeed, the old dog has always been a euro fan boy and I would expect his constituents to know that. I completely disagree with him on the brexit debacle but he is honourable and open.

[crankedup]

SunsetZed said:

crankedup said:

Mrr T said:

digimeistter said:

He shouldn't even be an MP, he lost a vote of no confidence and has been de-selected.

The honorable thing would have been to stand down and call a by-election.

Clearly he has no honour and is clinging on to a position he really shouldn't be occupying anymore to attempt to derail Brexit by fair means or foul.

Contemptible individual.

The honourable thing would be for parties members to support their MP's.

I note Conservative members are not trying to deselect, IDS, DD, Foxy, Steve Baker, John Redwood, all of whom are not representing the views of their constituencies.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/poli...

That’s a bit of nonsense, these Tory MPs all stood on the manifesto platform. This infofrd electorates what the MP stood for and agreed with at the time of the GE.If those disagreed then it seems they voted for the wrong candidate. National referendum v whims of losers.

With the notable exception of Ken Clarke who clearly told his constituents where he stood on Brexit and that he would not be supporting the manifesto on it.

Indeed, the old dog has always been a euro fan boy and I would expect his constituents to know that. I completely disagree with him on the brexit debacle but he is honourable and open.

[loafer123]

Politico said:

Exclusive: Martin Selmayr to leave powerful Commission post ‘next week’
Next secretary-general is likely to be a Frenchman, says German official.

Good news, albeit the carve up of his replacement between German and France is clearly already underway. Democracy my arse.

[Vanden Saab]

I see that yet another Labour MP Sarah Champion has come out in favour of No Deal today and says she would vote against a vote of no confidence on the issue. She has also confirmed that there are many other Labour MPs who would do the same. The idea that there is no majority for no deal in Parliament is rapidly receding just as it is in the country as a whole.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49007176...

[crankedup]

Vanden Saab said:

I see that yet another Labour MP Sarah Champion has come out in favour of No Deal today and says she would vote against a vote of no confidence on the issue. She has also confirmed that there are many other Labour MPs who would do the same. The idea that there is no majority for no deal in Parliament is rapidly receding just as it is in the country as a whole.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49007176...

Coin a well used, overused term ‘wonderful news, just wonderful’.

[Vanden Saab]

crankedup said:

Vanden Saab said:

I see that yet another Labour MP Sarah Champion has come out in favour of No Deal today and says she would vote against a vote of no confidence on the issue. She has also confirmed that there are many other Labour MPs who would do the same. The idea that there is no majority for no deal in Parliament is rapidly receding just as it is in the country as a whole.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49007176...

Coin a well used, overused term ‘wonderful news, just wonderful’.

Champion, Lad, Champion...

[Robertj21a]

Vanden Saab said:

I see that yet another Labour MP Sarah Champion has come out in favour of No Deal today and says she would vote against a vote of no confidence on the issue. She has also confirmed that there are many other Labour MPs who would do the same. The idea that there is no majority for no deal in Parliament is rapidly receding just as it is in the country as a whole.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49007176...

It's taking them long enough to come round. Some of us were saying this last year !

[mike9009]

Robertj21a said:

As Elysium well knows, this is about the 804th time he's tried to promote a second referendum. He seems to be the only one left repeating it, most others realised it was ridiculous months ago.

Not necessarily ridiculous and maybe a valid way forward if our politicians cannot make up their minds and take control.

A second referendum is not my preference, as it 'potentially' undermines our democracy. The democratic first vote has taken far too long to enact, which could set a precedence for another referendum though, IMO.

[Elysium]

MDMetal said:

Troubleatmill said:

Why does Leave have to win two referendums, but Remain just one.

I don’t recall hearing

And if Remain had won do we genuinely believe they would be entertaining a second referendum.

Or a compromise?

While that's true the real issue is that people supporting another vote have no answer for what happens if the we get the same outcome. The only reason they want another vote is because they think they'll win which is sort of fine if that's how they want to think, but if we get the same identical result with the current set of MPs then nothing changes. So another vote solves nothing because it's perfectly possible to get the same result.

Of course there is an answer to this. If we have a confirmatory vote between no-deal and remain, then we immediately do what the majority want. It it’s no-deal, then we leave on that basis.

Another vote solves everything. It’s simple, logical and democratic.

[Elysium]

Robertj21a said:

As Elysium well knows, this is about the 804th time he's tried to promote a second referendum. He seems to be the only one left repeating it, most others realised it was ridiculous months ago.

Thats a somewhat idiotic comment, given that a second referendum is the settled, official policy of the Lib Dem and Labour parties.

The report I linked to includes details of the clear majority of MPs in the commons who are likely to support a second referendum and it was authored by the people’s vote, who support a second referendum.

So no, I am not the only person calling for this.

[Elysium]

Down and out said:

Usual remainer crap. If we did have a second referendum and it went to leave again, remainers wouldn't accept it.

Wrong. You have made this up.

[Elysium]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The majority will decide. If the minority are unhappy, they can complain and campaign as much as they wish.

That’s what democracy is and the idea that a second referendum would be undemocratic is nonsensical. It is a democratic exercise pure and simple.

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

Wrong. You have made this up.