CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)
Discussion
isaldiri said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
It depends I suppose. Eddiesteadygo might disagree on this but.... Do some posters here have to eat their words?
A symptomatic vaccinated person (a fair bit more likely with Delta than other earlier ones) probably has a similar transmission risk to an unvaccinated symptomatic person. I believe the CDC had stated only symptomatic vaxxed people should test themselves so Fauci isn't completely off his rocker stating that in some ways.
Is there another document you've seen which is a bit more specific ?
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
AIUI the vaccinated person has a much lower risk of CATCHING the virus in the first place so the requirement for "Covipasses" is going to be very beneficial AFAICSDo some posters here have to eat their words?
isaldiri said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
It depends I suppose. Eddiesteadygo might disagree on this but.... Do some posters here have to eat their words?
A symptomatic vaccinated person (a fair bit more likely with Delta than other earlier ones) probably has a similar transmission risk to an unvaccinated symptomatic person. I believe the CDC had stated only symptomatic vaxxed people should test themselves so Fauci isn't completely off his rocker stating that in some ways.
skwdenyer said:
Vaccination still seems like the sensible play here.
Define sensible. Coercing younger people to vax up is simply not going to achieve a meaningful absolute risk reduction because the numbers of those people getting seriously ill is very low anyway. That it can potentially be further lowered is neither here nor there and isn't decent justification for extension of vaccine passports and all the rest of the nonsense being bandied about. Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 28th July 16:27
Countdown said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
AIUI the vaccinated person has a much lower risk of CATCHING the virus in the first place so the requirement for "Covipasses" is going to be very beneficial AFAICSDo some posters here have to eat their words?
2 people on a flight. 1 vaxxed and untested, 1 unvaxxed but tested -ve. Who is more dangerous to the surrounding people, the folks they come in contact with or when they get back sans quarantine?
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
If true it kills the case for vaccine passports and so hopefully that will end that nonsense. Do some posters here have to eat their words?
Nickgnome said:
Andy888 said:
Pretty sure I have seen Estonia's digital ID system being touted as an example to follow, and in fairness I can see certain advantages to it.
https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/id-card
That said, I also don't appreciate being controlled or monitored any more than we currently are (arguably already too much).
I guess the problem is that we don't know whereabouts on the scale our leaders are likely to settle - hopefully not at the full blown China end, but then look how far Oz have gone, so nothing is beyond the realms of possibility.
More info: https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/services/legal/tech/asse...
I live there circa 50% of my time. Post soviet era Estonia grasped the opportunity to be a forward looking digital society. The Digital ID card facilitates much in relation to banking, company set up healthcare, property purchase etc.https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/id-card
That said, I also don't appreciate being controlled or monitored any more than we currently are (arguably already too much).
I guess the problem is that we don't know whereabouts on the scale our leaders are likely to settle - hopefully not at the full blown China end, but then look how far Oz have gone, so nothing is beyond the realms of possibility.
More info: https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/services/legal/tech/asse...
Edited by Andy888 on Wednesday 28th July 16:06
It works really well and most there are not obsessed by the big brother fears as exemplified by some here.
JagLover said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
If true it kills the case for vaccine passports and so hopefully that will end that nonsense. Do some posters here have to eat their words?
J210 said:
Oh, that's just wonderful! 
JagLover said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
If true it kills the case for vaccine passports and so hopefully that will end that nonsense. Do some posters here have to eat their words?
t and it certainly wont stop you crashing, the only job it does is stop you getting a face full of steering wheel. Why would something only designed to stop you dying stop you getting into danger in the first place, makes no sense.trouble is though fauci has said it so that proves nothing.
77th Brigade said:
The point is just what he said. Vaxxed or not, the viral load and hence transmissability is the same. If Fauci is correct then Covid passports are utterly useless.
No it doesn't. The point is that the unvaccinated are more likely to end up in hospital and/or die. If that happens the NHS may get overrun again and other illnesses stop being treated again.Rufus Stone said:
No it doesn't. The point is that the unvaccinated are more likely to end up in hospital and/or die. If that happens the NHS may get overrun again and other illnesses stop being treated again.
More likely is a relative concept. The chances of a healthy 20 year old ending up in hospital from it were not that high to start with.In any case vaccine passports were being justified as a means of disease control, not to reduce hospitalisations. If the vaccine has no effect on spread then where is the justification?
Rufus Stone said:
77th Brigade said:
The point is just what he said. Vaxxed or not, the viral load and hence transmissability is the same. If Fauci is correct then Covid passports are utterly useless.
No it doesn't. The point is that the unvaccinated are more likely to end up in hospital and/or die. If that happens the NHS may get overrun again and other illnesses stop being treated again.Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
JagLover said:
Rufus Stone said:
No it doesn't. The point is that the unvaccinated are more likely to end up in hospital and/or die. If that happens the NHS may get overrun again and other illnesses stop being treated again.
More likely is a relative concept. The chances of a healthy 20 year old ending up in hospital from it were not that high to start with.In any case vaccine passports were being justified as a means of disease control, not to reduce hospitalisations. If the vaccine has no effect on spread then where is the justification?
77th Brigade said:
You've missed the point of the conversation. We're not talking about hospital loads, we're talking viral loads and transmissibility.
Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
They are beneficial in preventing hospital admissions and deaths though.Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
cymatty said:
JagLover said:
If true it kills the case for vaccine passports and so hopefully that will end that nonsense.
But reignites the case for constant testing which is worse.We all know in a day or two time 'new evidence' will present itself to show having the vaccine prevents transmission slightly.
Rufus Stone said:
77th Brigade said:
You've missed the point of the conversation. We're not talking about hospital loads, we're talking viral loads and transmissibility.
Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
They are beneficial in preventing hospital admissions and deaths though.Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
JagLover said:
Rufus Stone said:
No it doesn't. The point is that the unvaccinated are more likely to end up in hospital and/or die. If that happens the NHS may get overrun again and other illnesses stop being treated again.
More likely is a relative concept. The chances of a healthy 20 year old ending up in hospital from it were not that high to start with.In any case vaccine passports were being justified as a means of disease control, not to reduce hospitalisations. If the vaccine has no effect on spread then where is the justification?
An older person is likely to have had the double vaccine, they're less likely to be at a lot of types of concerts and if they are unvaccinated and like to party hard at 65, well thats their personal choice. They know the risks and have had the warnings and they'll be a minority population. So why do they need any further intervention?
The young and unvaccinated....well, they had basically no chance of being medically inconvenienced by catching covid in the first place. So the vaccine doesn't prevent delta spread and doesn't noticeably change their outcome... so they passes wouldn't seem to do anything other than denote who has and who hasn't been vaccinated. After that any outcome would be the same; both wouldn't get anywhere near a hospital and both can still spread it.
Rufus Stone said:
77th Brigade said:
You've missed the point of the conversation. We're not talking about hospital loads, we're talking viral loads and transmissibility.
Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
They are beneficial in preventing hospital admissions and deaths though.Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
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