CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)
Discussion
77th Brigade said:
You've missed the point of the conversation. We're not talking about hospital loads, we're talking viral loads and transmissibility.
Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
Especially since the vaccinated can still transmit the virus. Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
Show your vaccine passport indicating you have had the vaccine, go into the crowded night club and spread that Virus!
Boringvolvodriver said:
77th Brigade said:
You've missed the point of the conversation. We're not talking about hospital loads, we're talking viral loads and transmissibility.
Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
Especially since the vaccinated can still transmit the virus. Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
Show your vaccine passport indicating you have had the vaccine, go into the crowded night club and spread that Virus!
Rufus Stone said:
77th Brigade said:
The point is just what he said. Vaxxed or not, the viral load and hence transmissability is the same. If Fauci is correct then Covid passports are utterly useless.
No it doesn't. The point is that the unvaccinated are more likely to end up in hospital and/or die. If that happens the NHS may get overrun again and other illnesses stop being treated again.Some hospitals were overrun yes, but a some weren't and many more decided to operate in some kind of Mary Celeste mode even when we had few nationwide cases and deaths you could count with your fingers.
vaccine passport is just dumb. Are the Govt really that stupid? Do they not have any critical thinking ability?
If they came out with Digital ID to help prevent fraud etc as a stand alone thing - thats another matter and one I would mostly go along with but the coercion to have a vaccine to have a medical passport to have a digital ID is coercive and wrong.
I just dont want the vaccine - does that make me a bad person?
If they came out with Digital ID to help prevent fraud etc as a stand alone thing - thats another matter and one I would mostly go along with but the coercion to have a vaccine to have a medical passport to have a digital ID is coercive and wrong.
I just dont want the vaccine - does that make me a bad person?
g4ry13 said:
It's funny how if a few years back someone said to you that in the future we would be forced to walk around wearing face masks, highly restricted in our movements to leave the country and required to provide proof of having an injection you would have probably called that person a "nut job" too.
Remember the "drip-drip-drip" analogy on here from spring 2020? It will never happen they cried! And look where we are now....The nut jobs are those who can't see past the end of their nose, like wearing blinkers, and probably a mask as well.
superlightr said:
vaccine passport is just dumb. Are the Govt really that stupid? Do they not have any critical thinking ability?
If they came out with Digital ID to help prevent fraud etc as a stand alone thing - thats another matter and one I would mostly go along with but the coercion to have a vaccine to have a medical passport to have a digital ID is coercive and wrong.
I just dont want the vaccine - does that make me a bad person?
No. A murderer, but not bad. If they came out with Digital ID to help prevent fraud etc as a stand alone thing - thats another matter and one I would mostly go along with but the coercion to have a vaccine to have a medical passport to have a digital ID is coercive and wrong.
I just dont want the vaccine - does that make me a bad person?
GSE said:
g4ry13 said:
It's funny how if a few years back someone said to you that in the future we would be forced to walk around wearing face masks, highly restricted in our movements to leave the country and required to provide proof of having an injection you would have probably called that person a "nut job" too.
Remember the "drip-drip-drip" analogy on here from spring 2020? It will never happen they cried! And look where we are now....The nut jobs are those who can't see past the end of their nose, like wearing blinkers, and probably a mask as well.
77th Brigade said:
superlightr said:
vaccine passport is just dumb. Are the Govt really that stupid? Do they not have any critical thinking ability?
If they came out with Digital ID to help prevent fraud etc as a stand alone thing - thats another matter and one I would mostly go along with but the coercion to have a vaccine to have a medical passport to have a digital ID is coercive and wrong.
I just dont want the vaccine - does that make me a bad person?
No. A murderer, but not bad. If they came out with Digital ID to help prevent fraud etc as a stand alone thing - thats another matter and one I would mostly go along with but the coercion to have a vaccine to have a medical passport to have a digital ID is coercive and wrong.
I just dont want the vaccine - does that make me a bad person?
Boringvolvodriver said:
This isn’t China……… what was it Ferguson said about getting away with lockdowns? Where did he get that idea from I wonder?
I suspect many people are potentially rather trusting of government and politicians despite saying that they don’t trust them.
Fwiw, I really really hope that I am wrong and that the passport scheme doesn’t happen. I read an article where the Government's Privacy Tzar (who knew we had one?) was saying that any such scheme should stop once the pandemic was over………..
Back in 2019, about the time someone was having bat soup, no European country’s pandemic plans seriously entertained the prospect of putting a country on pause. Then, that’s what China did. “I think people’s sense of what is possible in terms of control changed quite dramatically between January and March,” Professor Ferguson says...I suspect many people are potentially rather trusting of government and politicians despite saying that they don’t trust them.
Fwiw, I really really hope that I am wrong and that the passport scheme doesn’t happen. I read an article where the Government's Privacy Tzar (who knew we had one?) was saying that any such scheme should stop once the pandemic was over………..
In January, members of Sage, the government’s scientific advisory group, had watched as China enacted this innovative intervention in pandemic control that was also a medieval intervention. “They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was sceptical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy.”. Then, as infections seeded across the world, springing up like angry boils on the map, Sage debated whether, nevertheless, it would be effective here. “It’s a communist one party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with it in Europe, we thought.” In February one of those boils raged just below the Alps. “And then Italy did it. And we realised we could.”.
https://archive.vn/2020.12.25-194815/https://www.t...
Rufus Stone said:
77th Brigade said:
You've missed the point of the conversation. We're not talking about hospital loads, we're talking viral loads and transmissibility.
Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
They are beneficial in preventing hospital admissions and deaths though.Covid passports do not prevent transmission, they are therefore useless in preventing spread.
gareth_r said:
Back in 2019, about the time someone was having bat soup, no European country’s pandemic plans seriously entertained the prospect of putting a country on pause. Then, that’s what China did. “I think people’s sense of what is possible in terms of control changed quite dramatically between January and March,” Professor Ferguson says...
In January, members of Sage, the government’s scientific advisory group, had watched as China enacted this innovative intervention in pandemic control that was also a medieval intervention. “They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was sceptical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy.”. Then, as infections seeded across the world, springing up like angry boils on the map, Sage debated whether, nevertheless, it would be effective here. “It’s a communist one party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with it in Europe, we thought.” In February one of those boils raged just below the Alps. “And then Italy did it. And we realised we could.”.
https://archive.vn/2020.12.25-194815/https://www.t...
and how much of that was deliberate theatre by the Chinese to get the West to cut its own throat. I wonder if we will ever know the full story on that. In January, members of Sage, the government’s scientific advisory group, had watched as China enacted this innovative intervention in pandemic control that was also a medieval intervention. “They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was sceptical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy.”. Then, as infections seeded across the world, springing up like angry boils on the map, Sage debated whether, nevertheless, it would be effective here. “It’s a communist one party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with it in Europe, we thought.” In February one of those boils raged just below the Alps. “And then Italy did it. And we realised we could.”.
https://archive.vn/2020.12.25-194815/https://www.t...
g4ry13 said:
cymatty said:
JagLover said:
If true it kills the case for vaccine passports and so hopefully that will end that nonsense.
But reignites the case for constant testing which is worse.We all know in a day or two time 'new evidence' will present itself to show having the vaccine prevents transmission slightly.
skwdenyer said:
g4ry13 said:
cymatty said:
JagLover said:
If true it kills the case for vaccine passports and so hopefully that will end that nonsense.
But reignites the case for constant testing which is worse.We all know in a day or two time 'new evidence' will present itself to show having the vaccine prevents transmission slightly.
SS2. said:
isaldiri said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
It depends I suppose. Eddiesteadygo might disagree on this but.... Do some posters here have to eat their words?
A symptomatic vaccinated person (a fair bit more likely with Delta than other earlier ones) probably has a similar transmission risk to an unvaccinated symptomatic person. I believe the CDC had stated only symptomatic vaxxed people should test themselves so Fauci isn't completely off his rocker stating that in some ways.
Is there another document you've seen which is a bit more specific ?
The US has essentially freed vaccinated people from asymptomatic testing, unlike here - it might not be unreasonable to assume he's talking about only symptomatic vaccinated people as 'those vaxxed with the delta variant'. In that context what Fauci said re transmission vs an unvaccinated person is probably broadly right. Whether or not that 'kills the logic of covid passes' I suppose depends very much where one stands wrt to that whole load of nonsense requiring them in the first place.
JagLover said:
gareth_r said:
Back in 2019, about the time someone was having bat soup, no European country’s pandemic plans seriously entertained the prospect of putting a country on pause. Then, that’s what China did. “I think people’s sense of what is possible in terms of control changed quite dramatically between January and March,” Professor Ferguson says...
In January, members of Sage, the government’s scientific advisory group, had watched as China enacted this innovative intervention in pandemic control that was also a medieval intervention. “They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was sceptical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy.”. Then, as infections seeded across the world, springing up like angry boils on the map, Sage debated whether, nevertheless, it would be effective here. “It’s a communist one party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with it in Europe, we thought.” In February one of those boils raged just below the Alps. “And then Italy did it. And we realised we could.”.
https://archive.vn/2020.12.25-194815/https://www.t...
and how much of that was deliberate theatre by the Chinese to get the West to cut its own throat. I wonder if we will ever know the full story on that. In January, members of Sage, the government’s scientific advisory group, had watched as China enacted this innovative intervention in pandemic control that was also a medieval intervention. “They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was sceptical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy.”. Then, as infections seeded across the world, springing up like angry boils on the map, Sage debated whether, nevertheless, it would be effective here. “It’s a communist one party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with it in Europe, we thought.” In February one of those boils raged just below the Alps. “And then Italy did it. And we realised we could.”.
https://archive.vn/2020.12.25-194815/https://www.t...
1) Politicians? Yes, of course, I trust them implicitly. Their actions are selfless and dedicated to improving the life of UK citizens, with no thought of personal gain.
2) I believe, without question, anything the Chinese government says.
Rufus Stone said:
scottyp123 said:
So a double vaccinated 90 year old is less likely to die of covid or end up in hospital than a unvaccinated 18 year old. Is that really how these things work?
A strange interpretation of what I wrote.You also said it prevents deaths, again young people do not die from it but older vulnerable people so. If you believe there is a point to vaccinating young people you must therefore believe that young people end up in hospital and die from it.
g4ry13 said:
77th Brigade said:
SS2. said:
g4ry13 said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
Do you have a source for that? I would love to forward it on to my father who last week claimed I was going to kill them all and that it's only the unvaccinated spreading it. Do some posters here have to eat their words?
Just the other day Fauci was saying the unvaccinated are causing case numbers to go up.
Can anyone else see it being used to take away freedoms from the vaccinated (no need to isolate after travel, no need to wear masks) rather than to give the unvaccinated the same 'freedoms'?
johnboy1975 said:
g4ry13 said:
77th Brigade said:
SS2. said:
g4ry13 said:
77th Brigade said:
Fauci saying that a vaccinated person with the Delta variant has the same transmission risk as an unvaccinated person. Has this killed the logic in Covipasses?
Do some posters here have to eat their words?
Do you have a source for that? I would love to forward it on to my father who last week claimed I was going to kill them all and that it's only the unvaccinated spreading it. Do some posters here have to eat their words?
Just the other day Fauci was saying the unvaccinated are causing case numbers to go up.
Can anyone else see it being used to take away freedoms from the vaccinated (no need to isolate after travel, no need to wear masks) rather than to give the unvaccinated the same 'freedoms'?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff