Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[Evercross]

Edinburger said:

II'll sit back and await the "yeah but it's not fair", "yeah but SNP bad", "yadder, yadder, yadder...".

Get your defence in first every time.

There is nothing meaningful that can be derived healthwise from the statistics, and as someone has already said the transferal of sales from Scotland to England by those who can cross the border to make their purchases (and it has been reported elsewhere that the 'booze run' is a real thing) could account for the changes in both figures.

But, by all means keep shilling 'burger. Your timing on commenting on these issues always matches precisely with SNP government spin.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 28th January 09:42

[A.J.M]

Was there not a report a few months ago that has said drink related deaths had gone up here but down in Scotland?

If true, then how do you manage to kill more people with less units sold...

[Pastor Of Muppets]

In their desperation to try and show some miniscule positivity regarding the deceitful SNP some will come on here
and sideswipe a whole raft of recent posts which illustrate the dire failings of Sturgeon and her tribe of destructors
in order to highlight something of little magnitude and giving it full puffery.

Well lets see a bit more of the detail then.

The NHS study found the volume of pure alcohol sold per person dropped from 7.4 to 7.1 litres - a fall of 3.6%,
hardly a massive drop in itself, but then add this to it.... Fortified wine - which had no price change from 60p per unit -
shows an increase, up 16.4%. Meanwhile the figures south of the Border have increased with many outlets
reporting higher sales in places like Carlisle. So it looks like the minimum pricing will only have an effect on the
very poorest and everyone else will either pay the difference, change to different spirits or buy it in bulk from
south of the border. In real terms those that want to drink / need to drink, will still be drinking the same amount
and if some who cant afford the few pence extra have to drop their consumption by the 0.3 litres that the NHS study
found, then its hardly a result to shout about is it. Of course the SNP will grasp and distort anything to try and distract
from their shambolic record of running Scotland.

Ironic that most of the people who can't afford the few pence extra for their Buckie are the type that hang SNP banners
from their council house windows, many of whom will resort to crime in order to pay the difference. Another SNP own
goal.

[Evercross]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

with many outlets reporting higher sales in places like Carlisle.

Pastor Of Muppets said:

many of whom will resort to crime in order to pay the difference.

I would like to see the figures for the incidences of shoplifting of alcohol since the introduction of MUP. For all we know the tiny decrease in sales in Scotland claimed by this report could be cancelled out or even overrun by the transferal of sales south of the border plus theft.

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Evercross said:

I would like to see the figures for the incidences of shoplifting of alcohol since the introduction of MUP. For all we know the tiny decrease in sales in Scotland claimed by this report could be cancelled out or even overrun by the transferal of sales south of the border plus theft.

Not just shoplifting, there have been Off Licences and Pubs in this area broken into and ransacked recently, and pretty
sure there will be more in other areas, housbreaking too where the occupants reported they emptied the drinks cabinet.
Then there are the online sales as well, a few people I know buy their drink on the net and have it delivered. Plus
the illegal stuff which is definitely increasing.

Add all of that against the 3.6%... FFS it's a drip in Campbeltown Loch.

As for the NHS study, how conclusive of the overall population will that have been?, not very much I bet, I have been in
the NHS a couple of times over the last year and I never saw or heard any mention of it, nor my O/H.

[Professor Barney]

Edinburger said:

It's well known that some parts of Scotland have an issue with alcohol and many people on this thread were very critical of the Scottish Government's proposal to introduce minimum pricing for alcohol.

Yet here we have NHS research which shows during the first year of minimum pricing for alcohol the volume of alcohol sold per person in Scotland dropped from 7.4 to 7.1 litres - a fall of 3.6%. In England and Wales - where minimum pricing was not implemented - the volume rose from 6.3 to 6.5 litres.

For off-sales. If the price for off sales has been increased, whats to say the drinkers haven't simply displaced to pubs or other on-sales venues. It's this kind of selective statistics that makes me despair in modern politics.

[DocJock]

Lots of replies trying to pick holes in Edinburger's post, but...

Prices up - sales down. Sounds a lot like an Occam's Razor outcome.

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

I'll sit back and await the "yeah but it's not fair", "yeah but SNP bad", "yadder, yadder, yadder...".

The fact is that this as a small change which has made a positive impact on society.

Quite literally at the expense of everyone else. I couldn't give a fk if it 'works' or not, I object to the state interfering in our everyday lives to that extent.

[Evercross]

DocJock said:

Lots of replies trying to pick holes in Edinburger's post, but...

Prices up - sales down. Sounds a lot like an Occam's Razor outcome.

Only if you ignore the sales increase in places like Carlisle and the lack of figures of sales transfer to pubs. The intention was to reduce consumption and there is no evidence of that presented here.

But, if nationalists want to take it as cursory win then go ahead - it only proves how neglectful they are.

[s2art]

If prices go up in scottish retail outlets, whats stopping people buying cheaper from Amazon and having it delivered? Do the Scottish government have an arrangement with Amazon?

[Cantaloupe]

DocJock said:

Lots of replies trying to pick holes in Edinburger's post, but...

Prices up - sales down. Sounds a lot like an Occam's Razor outcome.

Well, it's a bit inconclusive, unlike the effects of the reduction in the DD limit from 35 burps to 22 burps which since introduction has saved, oooh, , many, countless even, lives on our roads.

The actual statistics are subject to much interpretation so I won't weary you with them, but suffice to say some figures seem to say, in a roundabout sort of way, that it's been a huge success, when all other factors are taken into consideration, by and large, in the fullness of time, with a following wind.

[amgmcqueen]

Edinburger said:

It's well known that some parts of Scotland have an issue with alcohol and many people on this thread were very critical of the Scottish Government's proposal to introduce minimum pricing for alcohol.

Yet here we have NHS research which shows during the first year of minimum pricing for alcohol the volume of alcohol sold per person in Scotland dropped from 7.4 to 7.1 litres - a fall of 3.6%. In England and Wales - where minimum pricing was not implemented - the volume rose from 6.3 to 6.5 litres.

I'll sit back and await the "yeah but it's not fair", "yeah but SNP bad", "yadder, yadder, yadder...".

The fact is that this as a small change which has made a positive impact on society.

Source: http://www.healthscotland.scot/publications/evalua... & https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51269004

What currency will an 'independent' Scotland be using?

How will an 'independent' Scotland re-join the EU whilst running a 7% deficit?

How will you be able to fund and set up your own 'independent' national health service?

Just 3 simple but important questions regarding 'independence' that the SNP and their thuggish supporters still can't answer....?!

[DocJock]

Well, yes, it could be more conclusive, and whilst I concur with many of the arguments presented, they are currently merely anecdotal.

[Evercross]

DocJock said:

Well, yes, it could be more conclusive, and whilst I concur with many of the arguments presented, they are currently merely anecdotal.

The rise in sales form outlets around the Borders comes from the same source as the information used in the report.

The report tries to talk down this effect though stating that sales in northern English regions were higher than the rest of England prior to MUP and the further increase is in line with statistical errors. How convenient!

It is very obvious that this report is a political one rather than a scientific one.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 28th January 13:43

[Graveworm]

Less alcohol consumption is of course a good thing. (I do drink) however this doesn't measure whether the problem drinkers have changed their habit. What it does show is people look to be spending the same amount on alcohol within Scotland.

[Cantaloupe]

amgmcqueen said:

What currency will an 'independent' Scotland be using?

How will an 'independent' Scotland re-join the EU whilst running a 7% deficit?

How will you be able to fund and set up your own 'independent' national health service?

Just 3 simple but important questions regarding 'independence' that the SNP and their thuggish supporters still can't answer....?!

The revenue raised by Scots paying NI will cover all the costs of a NHS system plus a bit more,
just look across the Irish sea and see how the Republic can do it with a similar population.

[Graveworm]

Cantaloupe said:

The revenue raised by Scots paying NI will cover all the costs of a NHS system plus a bit more,
just look across the Irish sea and see how the Republic can do it with a similar population.

They are already in the EU an are net beneficiaries. Scotland will need a health service long before they can join the EU. Their current NI levels might fund a health service but even with their lower life expectancy their higher median age and higher unemployment rates will mean it won't fund a state pension and benefits.

[hutchst]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

Not just shoplifting, there have been Off Licences and Pubs in this area broken into and ransacked recently, and pretty
sure there will be more in other areas, housbreaking too where the occupants reported they emptied the drinks cabinet.
Then there are the online sales as well, a few people I know buy their drink on the net and have it delivered. Plus
the illegal stuff which is definitely increasing.

Add all of that against the 3.6%... FFS it's a drip in Campbeltown Loch.

As for the NHS study, how conclusive of the overall population will that have been?, not very much I bet, I have been in
the NHS a couple of times over the last year and I never saw or heard any mention of it, nor my O/H.

Didn't somebody lift a whole container of whisky in Paisley a couple of months ago?

[Evercross]

hutchst said:

Didn't somebody lift a whole container of whisky in Paisley a couple of months ago?

Whisky worth more than £100,000 stolen from Paisley yard.

[Edinburger]

I despair...

HMRC's approved mileage rate for private cars is 45p. It is 100 miles from Glasgow to Carlisle. So a round trip is 200 x £0.45 = £90.

You think people are 'spending' £90 plus over three hours to buy booze cheaper in Carlise? Seriously?

This place is absolutely nuts.

If you can't bear to type "you know what, on this occasion I agree that's a positive change implemented by the Scottish Government" then don't type anything.