How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
The Dangerous Elk said:
Really , Christ on a bike.
sigh, Ok lets try this
Eu Army ?
What EU army ? The one that was mentioned in passing without any plan, timetable or any process even discussed to open a discussion with the 27 member states ? The EU army that is as real as the Orc army from Lord of the rings. That army ? sigh, Ok lets try this
Eu Army ?
Tony427 said:
In short what you are saying is that the 17.4 million Leavers will just shrug their shoulders and put up with their democratic vote being ignored by the politicians who were voted in to carry out the populations wishes. In the referendum and also the following election.
These are the same Leavers that have been wanting to leave the EU for many years, having never had the opportunity to vote on ever deeper integration, watching the UK become drawn ever deeper into a Federal EU state.
For many, many years a huge proportion, a majority even, of the UK population has been anti EU. Being betrayed by an incompetent Government, a useless PM and a Parliament that ignores the elecorate will not make the leavers go away.
Leavers are not apathetic they were motivated to go out and vote.
Despite 40 odd years of experiencing the " benefits " of the EU they went out to vote and won.
Despite all the establishment, and the government telling them Brexit would be Armageddon they went out to vote and won.
Despite every fear tactic and insult, they went out and to vote and won.
Despite Obama they went out to vote and won.
As Mervyn King said in his piece recently, "Vassal states do not go gently into that good night. They rage."
So, just think about how the UK will function if Brexit does not happen.
All the anti EU feeling will be ramped up to 11. Anything that goes wrong will be blamed on the EU. Anything and everything. Any chance of working with the EU will be lost as the intransigence of the Leavers will poison any goodwill whatsoever. The UK will be the biggest pain in the arse to the EU as it is possible to be. The EU will absolutely hate us. The EU will even hate the Remainers as they have brought this poisonous, gangerous carcass back into the family home.
"Raging" Leavers will make it so.
Populist groups within the EU Parliament will have a focus and a rallying point and will continue to bring the EU down from within.
Increased federalism , forget it.
And what of the political fallout in the UK?. There will be another version of UKIP. It will be home to all the betrayed Leavers. There will be another referendum, if the EU hasn't collapsed in the meantime, and this time the margin to leave will be even bigger.
Brexit is not going away. it hasn't for 40 years so it wont now.
There's both Labour and Conservative Leavers without a political home. Somebody as in a UKIP V.2 under a new name, probably right wing, will pick up these votes from both left and right. They will have one goal. .
The Conservatives will lose the next election, deservedly. Their leaver core will desert them. Corbyn will probably get in , so thats the economy screwed but hey thats the cost of reversing Brexit for which we can blame the Remainers and the EU.
See its started already.
Do Remainers really think that the country will unite, once the Remainers have screwed over the Leavers?
Really?
Cheers,
Tony
C'mon Tony, in that case lead by example. There will be a rally at Westminster on Saturday according to the link below. I look forward to you posting custard proof next week that you were there and putting your words into action.These are the same Leavers that have been wanting to leave the EU for many years, having never had the opportunity to vote on ever deeper integration, watching the UK become drawn ever deeper into a Federal EU state.
For many, many years a huge proportion, a majority even, of the UK population has been anti EU. Being betrayed by an incompetent Government, a useless PM and a Parliament that ignores the elecorate will not make the leavers go away.
Leavers are not apathetic they were motivated to go out and vote.
Despite 40 odd years of experiencing the " benefits " of the EU they went out to vote and won.
Despite all the establishment, and the government telling them Brexit would be Armageddon they went out to vote and won.
Despite every fear tactic and insult, they went out and to vote and won.
Despite Obama they went out to vote and won.
As Mervyn King said in his piece recently, "Vassal states do not go gently into that good night. They rage."
So, just think about how the UK will function if Brexit does not happen.
All the anti EU feeling will be ramped up to 11. Anything that goes wrong will be blamed on the EU. Anything and everything. Any chance of working with the EU will be lost as the intransigence of the Leavers will poison any goodwill whatsoever. The UK will be the biggest pain in the arse to the EU as it is possible to be. The EU will absolutely hate us. The EU will even hate the Remainers as they have brought this poisonous, gangerous carcass back into the family home.
"Raging" Leavers will make it so.
Populist groups within the EU Parliament will have a focus and a rallying point and will continue to bring the EU down from within.
Increased federalism , forget it.
And what of the political fallout in the UK?. There will be another version of UKIP. It will be home to all the betrayed Leavers. There will be another referendum, if the EU hasn't collapsed in the meantime, and this time the margin to leave will be even bigger.
Brexit is not going away. it hasn't for 40 years so it wont now.
There's both Labour and Conservative Leavers without a political home. Somebody as in a UKIP V.2 under a new name, probably right wing, will pick up these votes from both left and right. They will have one goal. .
The Conservatives will lose the next election, deservedly. Their leaver core will desert them. Corbyn will probably get in , so thats the economy screwed but hey thats the cost of reversing Brexit for which we can blame the Remainers and the EU.
See its started already.
Do Remainers really think that the country will unite, once the Remainers have screwed over the Leavers?
Really?
Cheers,
Tony
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/brexit-betr...
Perhaps with UKIP's explosion you could get in touch with Nigel Farage about starting a new party? There are 17 million people out there ready to follow you.
toppstuff said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Really , Christ on a bike.
sigh, Ok lets try this
Eu Army ?
What EU army ? The one that was mentioned in passing without any plan, timetable or any process even discussed to open a discussion with the 27 member states ? The EU army that is as real as the Orc army from Lord of the rings. That army ? sigh, Ok lets try this
Eu Army ?
tic tock tic tock
The Dangerous Elk said:
Bend over, lube up, get ready.
tic tock tic tock
On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with the EU having a better defence force and so relieving the need for having huge numbers of US troops in Europe. tic tock tic tock
Anyway. Trump. He is the commander in chief. Can’t be any worse.
toppstuff said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Bend over, lube up, get ready.
tic tock tic tock
On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with the EU having a better defence force and so relieving the need for having huge numbers of US troops in Europe. tic tock tic tock
Anyway. Trump. He is the commander in chief. Can’t be any worse.
edit: wtf has Trump got to do with it ?
alfie2244 said:
toppstuff said:
alfie2244 said:
toppstuff said:
Maybe I’m French. 
Do you know our long lost friend ///AJD / Gloriaslap (affectionately known to his friends as slasher / Glo)?The Dangerous Elk said:
I suspect you would never fight in it would you. Other people job, less clever ones init ?
edit: wtf has Trump got to do with it ?
You would be shocked if you knew how wrong you are. edit: wtf has Trump got to do with it ?
I mention Trump because he is currently the commander in chief and based on past experience over the last 70 years or so , British armed forces generally do whatever POTUS wants. So maybe an EU army isn’t such a bad idea.
toppstuff said:
You would be shocked if you knew how wrong you are.
I mention Trump because he is currently the commander in chief and based on past experience over the last 70 years or so , British armed forces generally do whatever POTUS wants. So maybe an EU army isn’t such a bad idea.
No, I really would not.I mention Trump because he is currently the commander in chief and based on past experience over the last 70 years or so , British armed forces generally do whatever POTUS wants. So maybe an EU army isn’t such a bad idea.
Do feck of with the Trump herring, it is such an obvious squirrel I will not even shoot it.
The Dangerous Elk said:
toppstuff said:
You would be shocked if you knew how wrong you are.
I mention Trump because he is currently the commander in chief and based on past experience over the last 70 years or so , British armed forces generally do whatever POTUS wants. So maybe an EU army isn’t such a bad idea.
No, I really would not.I mention Trump because he is currently the commander in chief and based on past experience over the last 70 years or so , British armed forces generally do whatever POTUS wants. So maybe an EU army isn’t such a bad idea.
Do feck of with the Trump herring, it is such an obvious squirrel I will not even shoot it.
I merely compared the notion of an EU army vs a “special relationship “ where the UK armed
Forces have usually been an extension of the US. It’s a perfectly reasonable point and not a herring ( or a squirrel )
Macron said at Verdun of all places, that 'we need to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States'. He also said 'to truly protect Europeans we need an EU army'. Pretty clear where one of the leaders of the EU wants things to move towards. Merkel is also apparently in agreement. This is the EU army that was labelled a fantasy by Clegg..
toppstuff said:
You’re the one who raised the subject of an EU army.
I merely compared the notion of an EU army vs a “special relationship “ where the UK armed
Forces have usually been an extension of the US. It’s a perfectly reasonable point and not a herring ( or a squirrel )
Eu Army is not a notion, it is a stated goal.I merely compared the notion of an EU army vs a “special relationship “ where the UK armed
Forces have usually been an extension of the US. It’s a perfectly reasonable point and not a herring ( or a squirrel )
Trump is the squirrel, just the excuse.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff