How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
davey68 said:
Macron said at Verdun of all places, that 'we need to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States'. He also said 'to truly protect Europeans we need an EU army'. Pretty clear where one of the leaders of the EU wants things to move towards. Merkel is also apparently in agreement. This is the EU army that was labelled a fantasy by Clegg..
Wrong. He actually mentioned the US in a the context of cyber warfare ( which is legit and hackers do launch strikes from the US) but he has been misquoted by mischievous little urchins. Don’t perpetuate the error.
The Dangerous Elk said:
toppstuff said:
You’re the one who raised the subject of an EU army.
I merely compared the notion of an EU army vs a “special relationship “ where the UK armed
Forces have usually been an extension of the US. It’s a perfectly reasonable point and not a herring ( or a squirrel )
Eu Army is not a notion, it is a stated goalI merely compared the notion of an EU army vs a “special relationship “ where the UK armed
Forces have usually been an extension of the US. It’s a perfectly reasonable point and not a herring ( or a squirrel )
davey68 said:
Misquoted by the Independent and numerous other news organisations? Really?
Just ONE of the many clarifying articles. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.ecfr.eu/amp-art...
I think we all know what happen in the end. The tory brexiteers will fold when it comes to the vote just as they did with the 48 letter fiasco.
May's plan will squeak through parliament and we will end up in brexit limbo for the next 7 to 10 years.
Maybe less if we get a government voted in to power on a pro EU manifesto.
May's plan will squeak through parliament and we will end up in brexit limbo for the next 7 to 10 years.
Maybe less if we get a government voted in to power on a pro EU manifesto.
toppstuff said:
davey68 said:
Macron said at Verdun of all places, that 'we need to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States'. He also said 'to truly protect Europeans we need an EU army'. Pretty clear where one of the leaders of the EU wants things to move towards. Merkel is also apparently in agreement. This is the EU army that was labelled a fantasy by Clegg..
Wrong. He actually mentioned the US in a the context of cyber warfare ( which is legit and hackers do launch strikes from the US) but he has been misquoted by mischievous little urchins. Don’t perpetuate the error.
That article doesn't dispel the fact it's an ambition of Macron it just suggest his phrasing was misquoted. It actually says Merkel and Macron need to be clear on their rhetoric regards the make up of an EU army and a timeline. It does suggest though that France and Germany are on slightly different pages though. So in your view it will never happen? I disagree.
davey68 said:
Macron said at Verdun of all places, that 'we need to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States'. He also said 'to truly protect Europeans we need an EU army'. Pretty clear where one of the leaders of the EU wants things to move towards. Merkel is also apparently in agreement. This is the EU army that was labelled a fantasy by Clegg..
It would have been if we hadn't given away our influence in Europe. Now I'm less sure.davey68 said:
That article doesn't dispel the fact it's an ambition of Macron it just suggest his phrasing was misquoted. It actually says Merkel and Macron need to be clear on their rhetoric regards the make up of an EU army and a timeline. It does suggest though that France and Germany are on slightly different pages though. So in your view it will never happen? I disagree.
No I’m not saying that. I’m saying that implying that the EU is protecting itself against the US is weapons grade BS. As for the idea itself I’m not bothered.
Vote remain is a vote for ever increasing (drip by drip) Eu federalism which include these developments, there is zero reason to think/see otherwise, it is the logic behind the dissembling of nation states/pride and its replacement by the all powerful Party...oops, concessionaires...oops, Politburo...oops, EU Parliament.
This is and always has been (often hidden) the primary goal of the project.
But wait to see what happens to Macron, it will be a blood bath. The Eu's population is not as "united behind the project" as people think.
This is and always has been (often hidden) the primary goal of the project.
But wait to see what happens to Macron, it will be a blood bath. The Eu's population is not as "united behind the project" as people think.
Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Tuesday 4th December 21:45
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
Posted elsewhere but relevant for this thread
I thought you did not do repeats?toppstuff said:
Not really surprised. French people in positions of power have the ability to condescend unmatched in my limited experience !
or was that another B'stard/
I do specific elements of repeats - ie Jawknee as you well know
davey68 said:
That article doesn't dispel the fact it's an ambition of Macron it just suggest his phrasing was misquoted. It actually says Merkel and Macron need to be clear on their rhetoric regards the make up of an EU army and a timeline. It does suggest though that France and Germany are on slightly different pages though. So in your view it will never happen? I disagree.
Why are people so afraid of an EU army?
It's not as if we weren't sucked into Iraq 2003 because of the US. I don't see an EU army being a bigger risk than a shoot-from-the-hip US president.
City_boy said:
F1GTRUeno said:
We can.
We always have been able to.
So the EU refused to give up FMoL, because it is one of the 4 fundamental freedoms, but actually it didn’t exist in the first place?We always have been able to.
And those people complaining about loss of their rights, never had these rights in the first place?
Edited by City_boy on Tuesday 4th December 16:10
That has always been true. It was in evidence when the EU recommended we take x amount of refugees in from Syria and we said we'd take y for instance.
The fact that we choose not to is solely on our government, not the EU. That's after not being part of the Schengen agreement and also having a physical border in place.
If we turned around and said we wanted to limit immigration we could do, as long as we had a reason that meant something in accordance to the three things above - health, safety or policy.
Our politicians know that it would cost an awful lot to instigate plans to check everyone and stop people coming in so they don't do it. They were never going to do it after Brexit either. Imagine the lines at Dover, Folkestone, etc, at the Chunnel and in airports too. It's simply not feasible to do it.
Again, that's on our government and the choices they've made free of any EU judgement.
toppstuff said:
alfie2244 said:
toppstuff said:
alfie2244 said:
toppstuff said:
Maybe I’m French. 
Do you know our long lost friend ///AJD / Gloriaslap (affectionately known to his friends as slasher / Glo)?
toppstuff said:
Wrong.
He actually mentioned the US in a the context of cyber warfare ( which is legit and hackers do launch strikes from the US) but he has been misquoted by mischievous little urchins. Don’t perpetuate the error.
Here's what he said - or as close to a transcript as I can find. Audiio of the interview's on the Time websiteHe actually mentioned the US in a the context of cyber warfare ( which is legit and hackers do launch strikes from the US) but he has been misquoted by mischievous little urchins. Don’t perpetuate the error.
http://time.com/5446975/emmanuel-macron-european-a...
Macron said:
"When I look at the world right now I see re-emerging authoritarian powers, re-arming themselves at the edges of Europe. We are facing various intrusion attempts into our cyberspace and int our democratic life"
"We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,".
"When I see President Trump announcing that he's quitting a major disarmament treaty which was formed after the 1980s euro-missile crisis that affected Europe. Who is the main victim? Europe and its security,"
"We won't protect Europeans unless we decide to have a true European army," he said in the interview, recorded Monday night in Verdun, northeast France, as Macron tours the former Western Front during week-long World War I centenary commemorations.
No idea how edited that is, but the meaning's clear. Not a misquote, but misinterpreted. "We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,".
"When I see President Trump announcing that he's quitting a major disarmament treaty which was formed after the 1980s euro-missile crisis that affected Europe. Who is the main victim? Europe and its security,"
"We won't protect Europeans unless we decide to have a true European army," he said in the interview, recorded Monday night in Verdun, northeast France, as Macron tours the former Western Front during week-long World War I centenary commemorations.
The Dangerous Elk said:
Do I take it topnut is a returning banned poster well known for being a troll then ?
Or simply someone with a different opinion to you about Brexit. Like almost half the country in 2016 and potentially more than 48% now.it's not healthy to shut down debate and simply call people trolls, you just reinforce the echo chamber you live in. The EU negotiations threads on PH have generally been one huge EU hating echo chamber with the exception of a few people.
The Dangerous Elk said:
Vote remain is a vote for ever increasing (drip by drip) Eu federalism which include these developments, there is zero reason to think/see otherwise, it is the logic behind the dissembling of nation states/pride and its replacement by the all powerful Party...oops, concessionaires...oops, Politburo...oops, EU Parliament.
This is and always has been (often hidden) the primary goal of the project.
But wait to see what happens to Macron, it will be a blood bath. The Eu's population is not as "united behind the project" as people think.
Crackpot conspiracy theory bullsThis is and always has been (often hidden) the primary goal of the project.
But wait to see what happens to Macron, it will be a blood bath. The Eu's population is not as "united behind the project" as people think.
t, quoted for posterity. 
Edited to add: Tony hasn't responded yet about joining the protest in London on Saturday... Maybe he will go along if you join him. Are you going to be there in an effort to save the UK from the evil clutches of the EU? Remember, custard.
Edited by braddo on Tuesday 4th December 21:57
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