How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

[PurpleMoonlight]

wc98 said:

every single person commenting on this thread should watch that (the long version) though i suspect i could make a good guess as to those that won't. utterly incredible this was allowed to happen given how serious these negotiations are.

What's it say, I have no sound on my computer so no point in watching.

We know the EU offered a FTA from day one though, so no surprise there.

[carinatauk]

Just to follow up on the Airbus Brexit discussion

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-a380/air...

[wc98]

PurpleMoonlight said:

What's it say, I have no sound on my computer so no point in watching.

We know the EU offered a FTA from day one though, so no surprise there.

i knew you wouldn't watch it maybe you could email mrs may for the details of her lip reader

[PurpleMoonlight]

wc98 said:

i knew you wouldn't watch it maybe you could email mrs may for the details of her lip reader

I could indeed but I doubt she would reply.

I also have data limited internet access so try not to watch long videos.

[SpeckledJim]

citizensm1th said:

Fittster said:

SpeckledJim said:

Fittster said:

Atomic12C said:

T
every chance the UK economy without EU restrictions can thrive.

And the evidence for that is? (No Patrick Minford doesn't count).

160 non-EU countries around the world, most of which are not failing for want of additional Brussels.

Right, so you're just making up nonsense to suit your agenda.

nothing new there SJ is in favour of low or no tariffs and damn the consequence, he looks at things from the view point of a consumer after only low prices (a real race to the bottom type) . he has not thought about what happens when all the consumers are on rock bottom wages and cant afford to buy anything other than cheap imported tat

So you're a fan of no tariffs when it comes to the EU 27, but not a fan when it's elsewhere. What's the difference?

Happy for the British car industry to go head-to-head with the Germans, French and Italians, but hate the idea of the lamb industry having to compete with NZ. What's the central principle behind that?

If we're extending each others' point to the extreme, you want all of us to face higher prices and lower choice, in order that a few people can continue with businesses that don't work.

There's a word for something you can work really hard at for years and years without making any money: hobby.

[wiggy001]

PurpleMoonlight said:

wc98 said:

every single person commenting on this thread should watch that (the long version) though i suspect i could make a good guess as to those that won't. utterly incredible this was allowed to happen given how serious these negotiations are.

What's it say, I have no sound on my computer so no point in watching.

We know the EU offered a FTA from day one though, so no surprise there.

We were offered a free trade agreement, security co-operation, participation in research groups, agreement on flights etc... and our government turned it down because they didn't want us to leave the EU.

So when the Remainers say "but I thought it would be the easiest deal in the world, Davis said so". Well, er, actually it was! But our government decided it wouldn't tie us in with the EU enough so turned it down.

I don't think nearly enough has been made of this.

You can say this doesn't solve the Ireland issue, and I'd agree to an extent. But it does solve the other issue, that we are apparently leaving on WTO terms next month.

Why would anyone turn down a deal that would have united parliament and been acceptable to the majority of the population? We would then have had a year to concentrate on Ireland without all the noise about a lack of food on the shelves etc.

I used to think May was simply incompetent but it's much much worse than that.

[Vaud]

V8 Fettler said:

On the other hand, Australian beer is dire.

It's like making love in a canoe.

[anonymous-user]

wc98 said:

every single person commenting on this thread should watch that (the long version) though i suspect i could make a good guess as to those that won't. utterly incredible this was allowed to happen given how serious these negotiations are.

I've just tried to watch it, and after five minutes was ready to throw something at my screen.

First question: two minutes to deliver, actually two questions, one of which asked for how Baker "felt" at the time.

Answer: whatever it was, it didn't answer the question.

Second question: triple barrelled, focussing on whether Baker felt public confidence had been undermined. IOW: "what's your opinion on something about which I am not going to bother asking whether you have a factual basis to form an opinion".

In all seriousness, Select Committee Q&As more often than not consist of a competition between the questioner and the witness to get their respective opinions across.

ETA: unless the questioner is at least neutral (and Bill Cash is not a neutral questioner of Steve Baker) and there is material - whether it be documents written at the time, or evidence given by other people directly involved at the time - that can be put to the person questioned to test their answers, a Q&A session amounts to not much more than an exercise in letting the person who is being questioned say whatever they want to say with impunity. Some of it may be true, some might be half true, some of it may be false. How does one tell absent some properly critical and testing questions by reference to material other than what the questionee says?

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 8th February 09:52

[Allanv]

carinatauk said:

Just to follow up on the Airbus Brexit discussion

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-a380/air...

I read it 3 times and yet failed to see any mention of the word Brexit except in the tag at the top. I looks more like they are having issues securing the engines for them so customers are cancelling.

[Digga]

wiggy001 said:

I used to think May was simply incompetent but it's much much worse than that.

This. Her actions were downright dishonest. The negotiation process was hi-jacked by people who did not want to leave.

Now if you voted remain, you might think "good", but the problem is, we are all in the same boat and it is a boat that, through the inevitable process that followed the referendum is leaving the EU. So we've had an illogical opposition, which has netted us all a really, really stty deal.

I'd believed this for some time, but this video back it up, to the hilt.

[chrispmartha]

wiggy001 said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

wc98 said:

every single person commenting on this thread should watch that (the long version) though i suspect i could make a good guess as to those that won't. utterly incredible this was allowed to happen given how serious these negotiations are.

What's it say, I have no sound on my computer so no point in watching.

We know the EU offered a FTA from day one though, so no surprise there.

We were offered a free trade agreement, security co-operation, participation in research groups, agreement on flights etc... and our government turned it down because they didn't want us to leave the EU.

So when the Remainers say "but I thought it would be the easiest deal in the world, Davis said so". Well, er, actually it was! But our government decided it wouldn't tie us in with the EU enough so turned it down.

I don't think nearly enough has been made of this.

You can say this doesn't solve the Ireland issue, and I'd agree to an extent. But it does solve the other issue, that we are apparently leaving on WTO terms next month.

Why would anyone turn down a deal that would have united parliament and been acceptable to the majority of the population? We would then have had a year to concentrate on Ireland without all the noise about a lack of food on the shelves etc.

I used to think May was simply incompetent but it's much much worse than that.

So how does that all fit innwith the narrative that the big nasty EU has been uncooperative?

[PurpleMoonlight]

wiggy001 said:

We were offered a free trade agreement, security co-operation, participation in research groups, agreement on flights etc... and our government turned it down because they didn't want us to leave the EU.

So when the Remainers say "but I thought it would be the easiest deal in the world, Davis said so". Well, er, actually it was! But our government decided it wouldn't tie us in with the EU enough so turned it down.

I don't think nearly enough has been made of this.

You can say this doesn't solve the Ireland issue, and I'd agree to an extent. But it does solve the other issue, that we are apparently leaving on WTO terms next month.

Why would anyone turn down a deal that would have united parliament and been acceptable to the majority of the population? We would then have had a year to concentrate on Ireland without all the noise about a lack of food on the shelves etc.

I used to think May was simply incompetent but it's much much worse than that.

This is no secret either.

May has always rubbished a FTA, specifically a Canada Style FTA, because she wanted a closer and unique relationship.

To be fair to her, she appears to have got it with the proposed UK:EU free trade area.

Leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement is a different issue and the opposition to that appears to be solely with the backstop.

[wc98]

PurpleMoonlight said:

What's it say, I have no sound on my computer so no point in watching.

We know the EU offered a FTA from day one though, so no surprise there.

i forgot, you can click the subtitle icon at the bottom right of the you tube video, no need for sound. i look forward to your thoughts on the video

[dasigty]

chrispmartha said:

1975 is 44 years ago, have you had a bad life since then? Was that the fault of the EU, what makes you so angered about being part of the EU? My last question is the serious one!

Allow me to answer the serious one with a serious answer.

The amount of freedom and rights taken away as a direct result of the EU. a so called "Trading arrangement" lets not forget, that has infested everyday life with mountains of rules that are in direct conflict with the common law history & traditions of this country.
Free speech has become a thing of the past, the rights of the individual under British law eroded, the ability to hold politicians who make decisions that effect us to account.

The corruption that has cost this country dear, in money, jobs, and political honesty, the imposition of a globalist agenda and political correctness to the determent of this country.
The simple truth that its a front for the banks, as demonstrated by its actions in Greece.

[richie99]

powerstroke said:

Helicopter123 said:

You’ve clearly benefitted from EU membership during your life time, but as it now draws towards it’s close, why do you want to deprive future generations of the same?

If you so keen on FOM, why deny it to others?

You can’t appear to make any rational case for leaving.

You can't appear to make any rational case for remaining .

Maybe, as a member of the EU the UK has one of the world's most successful economies. Staggering failures of domestic policy continue to cause harm but fortunately the foolishness and carelessness of British politicians are limited by the restrictions imposed by EU membership.

[steve_k]

PurpleMoonlight said:

wiggy001 said:

We were offered a free trade agreement, security co-operation, participation in research groups, agreement on flights etc... and our government turned it down because they didn't want us to leave the EU.

So when the Remainers say "but I thought it would be the easiest deal in the world, Davis said so". Well, er, actually it was! But our government decided it wouldn't tie us in with the EU enough so turned it down.

I don't think nearly enough has been made of this.

You can say this doesn't solve the Ireland issue, and I'd agree to an extent. But it does solve the other issue, that we are apparently leaving on WTO terms next month.

Why would anyone turn down a deal that would have united parliament and been acceptable to the majority of the population? We would then have had a year to concentrate on Ireland without all the noise about a lack of food on the shelves etc.

I used to think May was simply incompetent but it's much much worse than that.

This is no secret either.

May has always rubbished a FTA, specifically a Canada Style FTA, because she wanted a closer and unique relationship.

To be fair to her, she appears to have got it with the proposed UK:EU free trade area.

Leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement is a different issue and the opposition to that appears to be solely with the backstop.

So it looks like the Brexiteer MPs had a plan all along and one the EU agreed with unfortunatly the Remainers in government wanted BRINO instead so binned this plan.

If we end up with no deal the Remainers should take up the offer of Tusks special place.

Roll on no deal, funny how the Remainers refusal to leave the EU engineered it.

[anonymous-user]

dasigty said:

Allow me to answer the serious one with a serious answer.

The amount of freedom and rights taken away as a direct result of the EU. a so called "Trading arrangement" lets not forget, that has infested everyday life with mountains of rules that are in direct conflict with the common law history & traditions of this country.
Free speech has become a thing of the past, the rights of the individual under British law eroded, the ability to hold politicians who make decisions that effect us to account.

The corruption that has cost this country dear, in money, jobs, and political honesty, the imposition of a globalist agenda and political correctness to the determent of this country.

Could you help me (another serious question): list three freedoms or rights at common law which have been removed by the EU.

And in what way(s) has free speech been eroded as a result of the UK's membership of the EU?

dasigty said:

The simple truth that its a front for the banks, as demonstrated by its actions in Greece.

Do you think there is an international conspiracy of bankers?

[TTwiggy]

dasigty said:

Free speech has become a thing of the past

Just to pick up on this one thing - Can you give an example of something you can't say now that you could have said before our membership of the EU, with reference to how the EU (not the ECHR) has stopped you saying it, plus why you might want to be able to say it?

[chrispmartha]

dasigty said:

chrispmartha said:

1975 is 44 years ago, have you had a bad life since then? Was that the fault of the EU, what makes you so angered about being part of the EU? My last question is the serious one!

Allow me to answer the serious one with a serious answer.

The amount of freedom and rights taken away as a direct result of the EU. a so called "Trading arrangement" lets not forget, that has infested everyday life with mountains of rules that are in direct conflict with the common law history & traditions of this country.
Free speech has become a thing of the past, the rights of the individual under British law eroded, the ability to hold politicians who make decisions that effect us to account.

The corruption that has cost this country dear, in money, jobs, and political honesty, the imposition of a globalist agenda and political correctness to the determent of this country.
The simple truth that its a front for the banks, as demonstrated by its actions in Greece.

Can you list the freedoms that the EU have taken away from you, can you list the Laws that you feel have impacted your life in a negative way and can you explain how the EU has taken freedom of speech away.

[amusingduck]

richie99 said:

powerstroke said:

Helicopter123 said:

You’ve clearly benefitted from EU membership during your life time, but as it now draws towards it’s close, why do you want to deprive future generations of the same?

If you so keen on FOM, why deny it to others?

You can’t appear to make any rational case for leaving.

You can't appear to make any rational case for remaining .

Maybe, as a member of the EU the UK has one of the world's most successful economies. Staggering failures of domestic policy continue to cause harm but fortunately the foolishness and carelessness of British politicians are limited by the restrictions imposed by EU membership.

Our staggering failures, and the foolishness and carelessness of our politicians is utterly trivial in comparison to, say, the staggering failures, foolishness and carelessness revolving around the Eurozone.