The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain
Discussion
Anyway what have we learnt
Wind.
Makes electricity. Not always available. Needed subsidies to build but amounts reducing. Needs backup. Makes the grid harder to manage. Some people don't like them on shore. Off shore is more expensive.
Solar
Ditto. Except the skyline bit.
Tidal
U.K. Has two of the biggest tidal estuaries in the world. Can't use them because it would destroy two huge habitats. Would allow morecambe to have a marina. Easy link to barrow (now that would be a reason not to buil it if ever there was one)
Fossil
Flexible, cheapish, makes co2. Gas exposes us to other countries political whims. Makes lots of co2.
Nuclear
Expensive, base load, needs subsidies, currently not flexible. Makes nasty waste.
What uk wants is cheap reliable electricity,
usage is almost certain to rise in the next 20 years (cars, home heating).
We are told we have to reduce CO2.
Conclusion
f
k knows 
Wind.
Makes electricity. Not always available. Needed subsidies to build but amounts reducing. Needs backup. Makes the grid harder to manage. Some people don't like them on shore. Off shore is more expensive.
Solar
Ditto. Except the skyline bit.
Tidal
U.K. Has two of the biggest tidal estuaries in the world. Can't use them because it would destroy two huge habitats. Would allow morecambe to have a marina. Easy link to barrow (now that would be a reason not to buil it if ever there was one)
Fossil
Flexible, cheapish, makes co2. Gas exposes us to other countries political whims. Makes lots of co2.
Nuclear
Expensive, base load, needs subsidies, currently not flexible. Makes nasty waste.
What uk wants is cheap reliable electricity,
usage is almost certain to rise in the next 20 years (cars, home heating).
We are told we have to reduce CO2.
Conclusion
f
k knows rolando said:
A small scale scheme that'll work using 100 year old kit
Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
Penllargaer Woods installed an Archimedes Screw as part of a regeneration project, it sits alongside a man-made waterfall. It's a great piece of kit and allows for fish migration too.Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
Gary C said:
Anyway what have we learnt
Wind.
Makes electricity. Not always available. Needed subsidies to build but amounts reducing. Needs backup. Makes the grid harder to manage. Some people don't like them on shore. Off shore is more expensive.
Solar
Ditto. Except the skyline bit.
Tidal
U.K. Has two of the biggest tidal estuaries in the world. Can't use them because it would destroy two huge habitats. Would allow morecambe to have a marina. Easy link to barrow (now that would be a reason not to buil it if ever there was one)
Fossil
Flexible, cheapish, makes co2. Gas exposes us to other countries political whims. Makes lots of co2.
Nuclear
Expensive, base load, needs subsidies, currently not flexible. Makes nasty waste.
What uk wants is cheap reliable electricity,
usage is almost certain to rise in the next 20 years (cars, home heating).
We are told we have to reduce CO2.
Conclusion
fk knows
Good preciseWind.
Makes electricity. Not always available. Needed subsidies to build but amounts reducing. Needs backup. Makes the grid harder to manage. Some people don't like them on shore. Off shore is more expensive.
Solar
Ditto. Except the skyline bit.
Tidal
U.K. Has two of the biggest tidal estuaries in the world. Can't use them because it would destroy two huge habitats. Would allow morecambe to have a marina. Easy link to barrow (now that would be a reason not to buil it if ever there was one)
Fossil
Flexible, cheapish, makes co2. Gas exposes us to other countries political whims. Makes lots of co2.
Nuclear
Expensive, base load, needs subsidies, currently not flexible. Makes nasty waste.
What uk wants is cheap reliable electricity,
usage is almost certain to rise in the next 20 years (cars, home heating).
We are told we have to reduce CO2.
Conclusion
f
k knows Gary C said:
Fossil
Gas exposes us to other countries political whims. Makes lots of co2.
If the tree huggers would let us frack, there wouldn't be the political exposure to other countries.Gas exposes us to other countries political whims. Makes lots of co2.
CO2 essential plant food. Take that away and we'll go hungry.
Other than that, you've made a good summary.
Evanivitch said:
rolando said:
A small scale scheme that'll work using 100 year old kit
Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
Penllargaer Woods installed an Archimedes Screw as part of a regeneration project, it sits alongside a man-made waterfall. It's a great piece of kit and allows for fish migration too.Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
rolando said:
A small scale scheme that'll work using 100 year old kit
Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
If you ever get the chance Cragside in Northumberland is very interesting, the first house in the world to be powered by hydroelectric, but in the end even with all his money building five lakes he ended up building a gas plant in the local village due to the intermittent supply of water.Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
Gary C said:
Anyway what have we learnt
Nuclear
Expensive, base load, needs subsidies, currently not flexible. Makes nasty waste.
Maybe more flexible potential than has been thought.Nuclear
Expensive, base load, needs subsidies, currently not flexible. Makes nasty waste.
http://www.powermag.com/press-releases/switzerland...
SInce historically most Nuclear has been designed and built to satisfy base load needs there was no evident requirement in the design objective for load following.
Now, with the focus on alleged "renewables" and CO2 reduction for some reason, the opportunity to re-assess nuclear presents itself but is only partly realistic in a renewables scenario where planning to build for oversupply capacity while trying to work around the intermittency problem has the potential to make life both very expensive and ugly. Not to mention inefficient.
A load following capable nuclear industry of some sort could present a favourable argument.
LongQ said:
Maybe more flexible potential than has been thought.
http://www.powermag.com/press-releases/switzerland...
SInce historically most Nuclear has been designed and built to satisfy base load needs there was no evident requirement in the design objective for load following.
Now, with the focus on alleged "renewables" and CO2 reduction for some reason, the opportunity to re-assess nuclear presents itself but is only partly realistic in a renewables scenario where planning to build for oversupply capacity while trying to work around the intermittency problem has the potential to make life both very expensive and ugly. Not to mention inefficient.
A load following capable nuclear industry of some sort could present a favourable argument.
Thanks for that link. Interesting. Certainly I was meaning the AGR fleet more than water reactors. Agr's originally were designed to have 30mw/minute ramp rates but a phenomenon called PCI became a concern in the 80's whereby power ramps can cause clad damage and failure so we had to limit the number and severity of ramps.http://www.powermag.com/press-releases/switzerland...
SInce historically most Nuclear has been designed and built to satisfy base load needs there was no evident requirement in the design objective for load following.
Now, with the focus on alleged "renewables" and CO2 reduction for some reason, the opportunity to re-assess nuclear presents itself but is only partly realistic in a renewables scenario where planning to build for oversupply capacity while trying to work around the intermittency problem has the potential to make life both very expensive and ugly. Not to mention inefficient.
A load following capable nuclear industry of some sort could present a favourable argument.
Don't know if sizewell B is considering Alfc, will ask.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Typical for early adaptors and small scale deployment of any technology.
And also the usual 'selective' reporting you have chosen.
Same page :
and
Not sure you had a point tbh
Not that early. The one that's up was first proposed in 2012, the one thrown out a year later.And also the usual 'selective' reporting you have chosen.
Same page :
and
Not sure you had a point tbh
The point being that the first farmer is pissed off because he's not making money out of the turbine, despite the wild promises made to him, and the second is damned glad that his appeal failed and given him the opportunity to invest in additional land to farm.
rolando said:
Not that early. The one that's up was first proposed in 2012, the one thrown out a year later.
The point being that the first farmer is pissed off because he's not making money out of the turbine, despite the wild promises made to him, and the second is damned glad that his appeal failed and given him the opportunity to invest in additional land to farm.
Man regrets financial investment due to poor advice, is that a new story?The point being that the first farmer is pissed off because he's not making money out of the turbine, despite the wild promises made to him, and the second is damned glad that his appeal failed and given him the opportunity to invest in additional land to farm.
Sounds like he had a series of issues, most notably being poorly located and exaggerated expectations by the surveyor.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
No - the truth of the matter is Rolando has cherry picked out a couple of examples from Positive and Negative experiences to paint a picture of failure.
Subsequently demonstrated how the 'positives' I cut and paste above in response were 100% swerved.
Even by the Farmers own admissions, the way he financed / paid for it through his Limited company caused some of the issues.
Non story and st stirring.
I'm not at all surprise that you rose to the bait and responded in a manner to be expected from one with a vested interest in the unreliables business.Subsequently demonstrated how the 'positives' I cut and paste above in response were 100% swerved.
Even by the Farmers own admissions, the way he financed / paid for it through his Limited company caused some of the issues.
Non story and s
t stirring.Who or what abruptly changed direction by 100%? Usual meaningless testiculation.
rolando said:
I'm not at all surprise that you rose to the bait and responded in a manner to be expected from one with a vested interest in the unreliables business.
Who or what abruptly changed direction by 100%? Usual meaningless testiculation.
What's your response to the positive comments he posted from the same forum?Who or what abruptly changed direction by 100%? Usual meaningless testiculation.
Evanivitch said:
rolando said:
A small scale scheme that'll work using 100 year old kit Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
Penllargaer Woods installed an Archimedes Screw as part of a regeneration project, it sits alongside a man-made waterfall. It's a great piece of kit and allows for fish migration too.speedking31 said:
Evanivitch said:
rolando said:
A small scale scheme that'll work using 100 year old kit Shame we don't all have a fast flowing stream at the bottom of the garden.
Penllargaer Woods installed an Archimedes Screw as part of a regeneration project, it sits alongside a man-made waterfall. It's a great piece of kit and allows for fish migration too.No wonder it has such a poor output.
The future looking less rosy as 6,000 jobs to go at Siemens-Gamesa
…and Vestas Shares Dive 17% On Concerns Over US Subsidy Cuts
More grim news for the Unreliables industry.
More grim news for the Unreliables industry.
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