How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 9)

[bitchstewie]

psi310398 said:

bhstewie said:

I heard yesterday from some commentator that when she said she was going to speak with Corbyn she was, apparently, genuine.

It's the backlash from the party that has, apparently, "spooked" her.

Genuine question here. No side.

I wonder what aspect of the backlash spooked her, given her blithe indifference to most other previous backbench backlashes?

I think the Tory party are terrified of losing power or possibly worse to them there's some weird "thing" about being seen to have "caved in" to Corbyn.

I don't think the power thing is because it's Corbyn leading Labour (which is fking scary) rather it wouldn't matter who it was, it would be the same because they want to be in power.

You stick two people in a room to try and act in the interests of a country and all they seem to do is act in the interests of their party.

Doesn't help when half of each party seem to be nutters.

Simple as that IMO.

[Puggit]

psi310398 said:

bhstewie said:

I heard yesterday from some commentator that when she said she was going to speak with Corbyn she was, apparently, genuine.

It's the backlash from the party that has, apparently, "spooked" her.

Genuine question here. No side.

I wonder what aspect of the backlash spooked her, given her blithe indifference to most other previous backbench backlashes?

She needs to say goodbye to her Brexiteer members and work with Labour. Let's imagine Tories are 45% of government, Labour are 40%. She'll get consensus by dropping her 20% brexiteer chums, as that leaves her with 25%+40%. She already knows she can't get anything through parliament with just her party.

(figures off the bag of a pack of fags)

[Blue62]

psi310398 said:

TeamD said:

Apologies then. I thought you were taking the urine.

I might well have been, but not from you...

It's nice to see you two making up, sad that Team D didn't realise that you're both in the same team, I think the D might be for Dunce.

[bitchstewie]

Puggit said:

She needs to say goodbye to her Brexiteer members and work with Labour. Let's imagine Tories are 45% of government, Labour are 40%. She'll get consensus by dropping her 20% brexiteer chums, as that leaves her with 25%+40%. She already knows she can't get anything through parliament with just her party.

(figures off the bag of a pack of fags)

Won't happen though.

She needs the ERG and DUP to stay in government so by any normal rules so she's stuck.

These aren't normal times but nobody seems to think that way.

[TeamD]

Blue62 said:

psi310398 said:

TeamD said:

Apologies then. I thought you were taking the urine.

I might well have been, but not from you...

It's nice to see you two making up, sad that Team D didn't realise that you're both in the same team, I think the D might be for Dunce.

Yawn.

[wc98]

crankedup said:

You would be forgiven for thinking so from my post, but no, I’m retired from work. The way I worded my post was just a lazy but direct way of expressing my pov.

i know, sorry forgot to add a smiley.

[GT119]

TeamD said:

Blue62 said:

psi310398 said:

TeamD said:

Apologies then. I thought you were taking the urine.

I might well have been, but not from you...

It's nice to see you two making up, sad that Team D didn't realise that you're both in the same team, I think the D might be for Dunce.

Yawn.

Duped?

[soupdragon1]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

BigMon said:

Why do you keep making such ridiculous broad brush statements?

I'm not happy with either. This whole thing has been a shambles from start to finish.

Why?

Because it's a fact if we have to take part it will cost that figure.

Not point burying your head in the sand.

I can't see anyone being 'happy' to spunk £100m no matter what your political persuasion is. I doubt there are people sitting around smiling thinking it's great.

[wc98]

Roman Rhodes said:

You obviously don't know that Ruth Jones, the new MP, voted Remain, doesn't want a no deal Brexit and supports a people's vote.

Newport was 56% for Brexit. First major test passed.

eh ,yes. i watched her speech after the announcement. major test ? i doubt it.

[ClaphamGT3]

Puggit said:

psi310398 said:

bhstewie said:

I heard yesterday from some commentator that when she said she was going to speak with Corbyn she was, apparently, genuine.

It's the backlash from the party that has, apparently, "spooked" her.

Genuine question here. No side.

I wonder what aspect of the backlash spooked her, given her blithe indifference to most other previous backbench backlashes?

She needs to say goodbye to her Brexiteer members and work with Labour. Let's imagine Tories are 45% of government, Labour are 40%. She'll get consensus by dropping her 20% brexiteer chums, as that leaves her with 25%+40%. She already knows she can't get anything through parliament with just her party.

(figures off the bag of a pack of fags)

I had coffee with a cabinet minister yesterday who said exactly this

[Vanden Saab]

Gareth1974 said:

djc206 said:

psi310398 said:

Your view, of course.

There are plenty here who think that a much better deal could have been obtained by first leaving and then negotiating. It still can, in my view.

Their and my view, of course.

You may well be right but our friend Jim is under the impression that a good deal could have been had already. I don’t see how.

Personally I don’t see leaving and then negotiating would work. It would appear to be very cap in hand to me.

I’m struggling to see how something better than May’s deal can be found, unless we have the “border in the Irish Sea” which will never be acceptable to Unionists, or go against the Good Friday agreement, and have some kind of border arrangement between N.I. and the Republic of Ireland.

The Customs Union idea that seems to be gathering momentum would largely prevent the N.I. issue/need for the backstop that we requested, but gives us less freedom than May’s plan.

How does a customs union avoid either the backstop or a border with ROi?

[psi310398]

bhstewie said:

I think the Tory party are terrified of losing power or possibly worse to them there's some weird "thing" about being seen to have "caved in" to Corbyn.

I don't think the power thing is because it's Corbyn leading Labour (which is fking scary) rather it wouldn't matter who it was, it would be the same because they want to be in power.

You stick two people in a room to try and act in the interests of a country and all they seem to do is act in the interests of their party.

Doesn't help when half of each party seem to be nutters.

Simple as that IMO.

Thanks. Presentationally speaking, talking to someone you've always labelled as a mortal threat was always going to be a hard sell but most Tories are pragmatic. After all, when all is said and done: he is still the leader of the opposition, whatever else he is.

I was wondering if it was the moment she seemed to have decided to offer the Republicans in NI and SNP in Scotland an effective veto over Brexit? I can't think of a single Tory who wouldn't be calling for her tarring and feathering if that came to pass.

[Nickgnome]

soupdragon1 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

BigMon said:

Why do you keep making such ridiculous broad brush statements?

I'm not happy with either. This whole thing has been a shambles from start to finish.

Why?

Because it's a fact if we have to take part it will cost that figure.

Not point burying your head in the sand.

I can't see anyone being 'happy' to spunk £100m no matter what your political persuasion is. I doubt there are people sitting around smiling thinking it's great.

Are we not down the pan for £2bn for no deal preparations and that’s without the GDP hit we have already sustained?

May be it should be risk or reward via adjusted tax rates.

[bitchstewie]

psi310398 said:

bhstewie said:

I think the Tory party are terrified of losing power or possibly worse to them there's some weird "thing" about being seen to have "caved in" to Corbyn.

I don't think the power thing is because it's Corbyn leading Labour (which is fking scary) rather it wouldn't matter who it was, it would be the same because they want to be in power.

You stick two people in a room to try and act in the interests of a country and all they seem to do is act in the interests of their party.

Doesn't help when half of each party seem to be nutters.

Simple as that IMO.

Thanks. Presentationally speaking, talking to someone you've always labelled as a mortal threat was always going to be a hard sell but most Tories are pragmatic. After all, when all is said and done: he is still the leader of the opposition, whatever else he is.

I was wondering if it was the moment she seemed to have decided to offer the Republicans in NI and SNP in Scotland an effective veto over Brexit? I can't think of a single Tory who wouldn't be calling for her tarring and feathering if that came to pass.

But that's the thing, I don't think Corbyn is fit for office personally, but he's there and the last time I looked he isn't Darth Vader and he has his own set of problems in the party just as May does.

Whilst I do get that the quiet pragmatic ones probably aren't the ones you see and hear on the news, I simply don't see the pragmatism you speak of.

I think some would sooner chew their own foot off than budge an inch or do anything that gives any indication of having accepted anything from Corbyn.

In their mind that's seen as losing, not compromising in the national interest.

[psi310398]

Nickgnome said:

...

May be it should be risk or reward via adjusted tax rates.

It always is. Taxing or borrowing is ultimately all government can do for money and it amounts to the same thing over time.

[Helicopter123]

Nickgnome said:

soupdragon1 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

BigMon said:

Why do you keep making such ridiculous broad brush statements?

I'm not happy with either. This whole thing has been a shambles from start to finish.

Why?

Because it's a fact if we have to take part it will cost that figure.

Not point burying your head in the sand.

I can't see anyone being 'happy' to spunk £100m no matter what your political persuasion is. I doubt there are people sitting around smiling thinking it's great.

Are we not down the pan for £2bn for no deal preparations and that’s without the GDP hit we have already sustained?

May be it should be risk or reward via adjusted tax rates.

Remind me, how much did the 'no deal' ferry contracts end up costing us?

[psi310398]

Helicopter123 said:

Remind me, how much did the 'no deal' ferry contracts end up costing us?

Well, if we are playing that game, remind me, how much has the EEC and the EU cost us?

[Earthdweller]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Camoradi said:

FFS you lot. Will you stop your arguing!

It's the fking weekend , and we live in the best country, in the world (apart from Belgium, obviously)

Get out there and shred some tyres or something!

I will be up at 6am in the morning to go to the Jaguar Breakfast Club a nice 140 mile drive just music in the Car no News and if someone mentions the "B" word I am not sure I will be able to contain myself. But you are 100% right just let them do their best or worst because we cannot do anything about it.

Me too !

6 am start in the Roadster, driving from Galway to Belfast then onto the ferry to Scotland for a forum run on Sunday

[anonymous-user]

eharding said:

Telegraph reporting Brexit talks between Labour and the Government have broken down.

Imagine it taking three days to work that out.

No wonder we are in a complete mess.

[TeamD]

GT119 said:

TeamD said:

Blue62 said:

psi310398 said:

TeamD said:

Apologies then. I thought you were taking the urine.

I might well have been, but not from you...

It's nice to see you two making up, sad that Team D didn't realise that you're both in the same team, I think the D might be for Dunce.

Yawn.

Duped?

Probably into thinking my country was a democracy.