45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 3
Discussion
AreOut said:
you mean scandals about Obama colluding with FBI/DOJ to spy on Trump team?!
Shhh don't say anything. Obama had a "Perfect scandal free" presidency according to anti-trumpers and such outlets like "Now this" and "Occupy Democrats" didn't you know? 
"how will he ever recover?" "Drumph is finished"
XslaneyX said:
AreOut said:
you mean scandals about Obama colluding with FBI/DOJ to spy on Trump team?!
Shhh don't say anything. Obama had a "Perfect scandal free" presidency according to anti-trumpers and such outlets like "Now this" and "Occupy Democrats" didn't you know? "how will he ever recover?" "Drumph is finished"
But this one does have issues that cannot be swept under the carpet. That is from the facts as they stand.
And no one knows which way the investigation will go. But it brings out acts of desperation from the likes of Nunes, so I expect there is stuff to appear that Trump will like even less.
Irony is in comparison with Obama’s time, trumps is all about controversy. Don’t remember this fuss when the previous pres was in power.
Funkycoldribena said:
paulguitar said:
The prediction of a Trump presidency being a colossal disaster has been completely accurate though. Actually, I think it is far worse than even the most pessimistic of us were fearing. It is such a clusterf
k that it is genuinely difficult to remember what the most recent scandal is...
In your opinion.Lots of people disagree.k that it is genuinely difficult to remember what the most recent scandal is...Meanwhile, the world still turns..
Many Americans that I have talked to think he is 'getting things done' and bringing the USA back on track with its economy, jobs and security.
They accept he doesn't have the charm of the typical USA president but some I've talked to recently say he's far the better choice than Clinton.
(And this is from a few business colleagues working in New York, Philadelphia and Chicago - ie. not your typical red-neck region
).So the left wing media will portray a colossal disaster (political of course), while a lot of business professionals are noticing a positive outlook in the USA.
Atomic12C said:
Funkycoldribena said:
paulguitar said:
The prediction of a Trump presidency being a colossal disaster has been completely accurate though. Actually, I think it is far worse than even the most pessimistic of us were fearing. It is such a clusterfk that it is genuinely difficult to remember what the most recent scandal is...
In your opinion.Lots of people disagree.k that it is genuinely difficult to remember what the most recent scandal is...Meanwhile, the world still turns..
Many Americans that I have talked to think he is 'getting things done' and bringing the USA back on track with its economy, jobs and security.
They accept he doesn't have the charm of the typical USA president but some I've talked to recently say he's far the better choice than Clinton.
(And this is from a few business colleagues working in New York, Philadelphia and Chicago - ie. not your typical red-neck region
).So the left wing media will portray a colossal disaster (political of course), while a lot of business professionals are noticing a positive outlook in the USA.
The problem with using the stock market as an indicator is the cause / effect is often very complex. For example, during Obama's first 13 months the DJIA / S&P rose a higher % than Trump's first 13 months (at the time of writing by a couple of %). Was that Obama's brilliance or just the markets starting to 'normalise' from an extreme event?
I think there's little doubt Trump's tax bill was seen favourably by the markets and has helped fuel a very strong 2017 (although 2016 produced good strength). How that'll play out in the long term remains to be seen. The current correction is also been assessed as being on the back of a positive US outlook i.e. because the economy is strong interest rates will need to be increased more quickly to control the predicted rise of inflation which would increase the cost of borrowing.
Whether the same would have happen had someone else in power is unknown. I think it's fair to credit Trump's tax bill with stock market strength, but how much of a positive that'll be in the subsequent years remains to be seen. Some of the investment bank analysis (obviously they always get it right ) suggests it'll be a short-term benefit.
We'll have to see, but caution always needs to be applied with cause and effect of the markets.
I think there's little doubt Trump's tax bill was seen favourably by the markets and has helped fuel a very strong 2017 (although 2016 produced good strength). How that'll play out in the long term remains to be seen. The current correction is also been assessed as being on the back of a positive US outlook i.e. because the economy is strong interest rates will need to be increased more quickly to control the predicted rise of inflation which would increase the cost of borrowing.
Whether the same would have happen had someone else in power is unknown. I think it's fair to credit Trump's tax bill with stock market strength, but how much of a positive that'll be in the subsequent years remains to be seen. Some of the investment bank analysis (obviously they always get it right
) suggests it'll be a short-term benefit. We'll have to see, but caution always needs to be applied with cause and effect of the markets.
paulguitar said:
Can you please explain what it is he has actually done?
Well he's pissed off the left - which is always a good thing Seriously though the guys I have talked to mention things like lower unemployment, budget surplus, GDP growth, consumer confidence, deregulation, Asia trade deals, national security to name a few.
Although I must point out I am just quoting their general main points, I have not personally paid that much close attention to american politics so I'll leave it for others to pass comment on success or failure on those.
Atomic12C said:
Well he's pissed off the left - which is always a good thing
Seriously though the guys I have talked to mention things like lower unemployment, budget surplus, GDP growth, consumer confidence, deregulation, Asia trade deals, national security to name a few.
Although I must point out I am just quoting their general main points, I have not personally paid that much close attention to american politics so I'll leave it for others to pass comment on success or failure on those.
Lets take these points one by one:Seriously though the guys I have talked to mention things like lower unemployment, budget surplus, GDP growth, consumer confidence, deregulation, Asia trade deals, national security to name a few.
Although I must point out I am just quoting their general main points, I have not personally paid that much close attention to american politics so I'll leave it for others to pass comment on success or failure on those.
Lower unemployment - only amongst white, black unemployment is rising. Unemployment as a whole is dropping though although at a slower rate than before.
Budget surplus - nope - There was a $182bn budget surplus in Apriil as cororate taxes were paid before year end, but by Oct that was a $666bn deficit. Trumps tax changes for the rich will do nothing to change this, only increase the deficit.
GDP growth - 2.3% instead of the expected 2.6% growth but close enough, driven by consumers, which is why savings was at the lowest levels for the last 70 years and credit card debt grew by 6%. Remember when the US spent more than they could afford - sept 2008...
Consumer confidence - As above - driven by credit card debt and no savings, buy buy buy...
Deregulation - you say that like it's a good thing...
Asia Trade deals - withdrawal from you mean, leaving a vacuum for China etc to fill?
National Security - what exactly? Refusal to sign sanctions, threatening North Korea, possible illegal air strikes, russian collusion and coverup?
His $1.5Trillion infrastructure budget he was talking up is actually $200bn over several years, with private enterprise expected to make up the rest, so consumers will be paying to use that infrastructure IF they can find someone willing to spend the money.
So you could see that on toll bridges, toll roads, but not on real improvements like clean drinking water. Not just Flint, but the US have over 75million people living in places where the water systems were in some violation of safety regulations, including the 1974 Safe Drinking Water Act.
Still Trump deregulated the coal indusrty, allowing them to dump and pollute rivers...
Edited by Byker28i on Monday 12th February 16:46
Tartan Pixie said:
Not aware of it but but it would be fair enough for an American diplomat to flag up brutal behaviour against an American citizen.
I just don't see any subtlety in America's approach. They've made it clear they feel free to invade any smaller non nuclear countries they wish and are applying nothing but further military and economic pressure to the the two holdouts, Iran and north Korea. And that's all there is, the entire nuance of their policy in one sentence.
Where's the carrot? Where's the roadmap?
Where's the marshal plan for a unified Korea?
Whenever North Korea decides to stop sulking in their room and join the industrialised world again there's going to be a noticeable bump in the graph of global GDP. Any country that missed the chance to invest in a peaceful Korea would be off their rocker.
Where's the plan for information integration?
With every iteration of technology the Kim's ability to keep their population isolated grows weaker and the ability of South Korean activists to communicate with their northern friends grows stronger.
Perhaps we could build a 'lobby to the internet' where there's only non political information which could act as an integration target for North Korean infrastructure? Would give NK a way to connect gradually over time without sudden revolution being caused by access to subversive websites like Pistonheads, wouldn't want to have your citizens counting the number of posts until a Porsche comment is made in a Lotus thread.
Where's a route out for the Kims?
If Kim Jong-un can peacefully turn it around so his people have the opportunity to achieve the high standard of living they are capable of achieving then history will remember him well. He will have earned his right to a comfortable retirement in a big house somewhere, or some other dignified end to the totalitarian era.
If we have learned anything from eastern Europe it is that removing dictators via popular revolution leaves deep and sometimes violent rifts among the people, it's an old destructive tactic from the cold war that needs canned in favour of a more modern nudge strategy.
If I can spitball these ideas for fun on a Saturday evening then what the fu<k are American diplomats doing with their time?
In some ways it might turn out to be a good thing that Tillerson's visiting some 'creative destruction' on the state department because the artistry of American diplomacy died when Bush II and that bunch of mobsters got in.
The Invasion of Iraq was geopolitical arson so if Trump means the end of the Wolfowitz doctrine then the fiasco may be worth it.
America never has a roadmap when projecting their influence and power for one but now they've got a whole squad of unbelievably thick and reckless people in charge and you're expecting nuance?I just don't see any subtlety in America's approach. They've made it clear they feel free to invade any smaller non nuclear countries they wish and are applying nothing but further military and economic pressure to the the two holdouts, Iran and north Korea. And that's all there is, the entire nuance of their policy in one sentence.
Where's the carrot? Where's the roadmap?
Where's the marshal plan for a unified Korea?
Whenever North Korea decides to stop sulking in their room and join the industrialised world again there's going to be a noticeable bump in the graph of global GDP. Any country that missed the chance to invest in a peaceful Korea would be off their rocker.
Where's the plan for information integration?
With every iteration of technology the Kim's ability to keep their population isolated grows weaker and the ability of South Korean activists to communicate with their northern friends grows stronger.
Perhaps we could build a 'lobby to the internet' where there's only non political information which could act as an integration target for North Korean infrastructure? Would give NK a way to connect gradually over time without sudden revolution being caused by access to subversive websites like Pistonheads, wouldn't want to have your citizens counting the number of posts until a Porsche comment is made in a Lotus thread.
Where's a route out for the Kims?
If Kim Jong-un can peacefully turn it around so his people have the opportunity to achieve the high standard of living they are capable of achieving then history will remember him well. He will have earned his right to a comfortable retirement in a big house somewhere, or some other dignified end to the totalitarian era.
If we have learned anything from eastern Europe it is that removing dictators via popular revolution leaves deep and sometimes violent rifts among the people, it's an old destructive tactic from the cold war that needs canned in favour of a more modern nudge strategy.
If I can spitball these ideas for fun on a Saturday evening then what the fu<k are American diplomats doing with their time?
In some ways it might turn out to be a good thing that Tillerson's visiting some 'creative destruction' on the state department because the artistry of American diplomacy died when Bush II and that bunch of mobsters got in.
The Invasion of Iraq was geopolitical arson so if Trump means the end of the Wolfowitz doctrine then the fiasco may be worth it.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Saturday 10th February 18:33
Afghanistan and Iraq for two are examples of no long term planning despite being in Afghanistan STILL after 16 years. They went in, caused hell, destroyed people's lives all in the name of getting something for themselves and then left it to rot which gave ISIS the chance to do as they pleased.
With North Korea there's no real difference to their normal plan with that place except that they're being vocal against Kim this time round. It's more to appease Trump's ego than anything else. Let him blowhard like he always does about everything but never actually make a plan to tackle them because there isn't one. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Kim's not gonna give up his nukes and nobody will attack him because Seoul can say bye bye so it's a Mexican standoff with no signs of ever changing.
I half bet that if the US f
ked off from South Korea and stopped doing military exercises full in the knowledge that it's only useful to ps off the North that nothing would happen. There wouldn't be another Korean War if the US suddenly abandoned the South and Kim wouldn't be rattling cages either.All rests on the shoulders of the US to stop policing the world.
AreOut said:
So you want to say reality is that Mike Pence as a US VP went to Winter Olympics to be distanced from Trump?!
Nope to be distanced from Trumps scandal. He went at the time that Trump is supposed to be interviewed by Mueller, same as how he's made foreign trips just as other bad news has hit. Despite being part of the transition team, had Trump read Comeys sacking letter to him, he's been trying to distance himself carefully away from Trump. He's playing the long game, was for a lot of 2017, positioning himself to be President when the inevitable happens, whilst not upsetting Trump.
I think he's implicated, will be sold out by other witnesses.
F1GTRUeno said:
Afghanistan and Iraq for two are examples of no long term planning despite being in Afghanistan STILL after 16 years. They went in, caused hell, destroyed people's lives all in the name of getting something for themselves and then left it to rot which gave ISIS the chance to do as they pleased.
To be fair Iraq was also our screw up, Blair/Brown had no idea, gave no thought to afterwards. There were several military leaders suggesting building/repairing infrastructure in the safe zones, make a real difference to the standard of living, then move forward to the next town. Actually make a difference, be the benefactor rather than seen as the enemy.F1GTRUeno said:
America never has a roadmap when projecting their influence and power for one but now they've got a whole squad of unbelievably thick and reckless people in charge and you're expecting nuance?
Afghanistan and Iraq for two are examples of no long term planning despite being in Afghanistan STILL after 16 years. They went in, caused hell, destroyed people's lives all in the name of getting something for themselves and then left it to rot which gave ISIS the chance to do as they pleased.
With North Korea there's no real difference to their normal plan with that place except that they're being vocal against Kim this time round. It's more to appease Trump's ego than anything else. Let him blowhard like he always does about everything but never actually make a plan to tackle them because there isn't one. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Kim's not gonna give up his nukes and nobody will attack him because Seoul can say bye bye so it's a Mexican standoff with no signs of ever changing.
I half bet that if the US fked off from South Korea and stopped doing military exercises full in the knowledge that it's only useful to ps off the North that nothing would happen. There wouldn't be another Korean War if the US suddenly abandoned the South and Kim wouldn't be rattling cages either.
All rests on the shoulders of the US to stop policing the world.
Sounds like you're anti American more than anything to me.Afghanistan and Iraq for two are examples of no long term planning despite being in Afghanistan STILL after 16 years. They went in, caused hell, destroyed people's lives all in the name of getting something for themselves and then left it to rot which gave ISIS the chance to do as they pleased.
With North Korea there's no real difference to their normal plan with that place except that they're being vocal against Kim this time round. It's more to appease Trump's ego than anything else. Let him blowhard like he always does about everything but never actually make a plan to tackle them because there isn't one. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Kim's not gonna give up his nukes and nobody will attack him because Seoul can say bye bye so it's a Mexican standoff with no signs of ever changing.
I half bet that if the US f
ked off from South Korea and stopped doing military exercises full in the knowledge that it's only useful to ps off the North that nothing would happen. There wouldn't be another Korean War if the US suddenly abandoned the South and Kim wouldn't be rattling cages either.All rests on the shoulders of the US to stop policing the world.
Atomic12C said:
paulguitar said:
Can you please explain what it is he has actually done?
Well he's pissed off the left - which is always a good thing Seriously though the guys I have talked to mention things like lower unemployment, budget surplus, GDP growth, consumer confidence, deregulation, Asia trade deals, national security to name a few.
Although I must point out I am just quoting their general main points, I have not personally paid that much close attention to american politics so I'll leave it for others to pass comment on success or failure on those.
I've just come back from Atlanta & Vegas (working, sadly) and people either thought he was doing a poor job or in several cases just said things along the lines of "We're sorry - please don't mention him".
These were all professionals, working either in IT security or logistics management systems. They're not seeing an upturn in rail shipments - something they have seen previously when the economy has been on a upward path.
rscott said:
I guess it depends where in the US the people are from and what their business interests are.
I've just come back from Atlanta & Vegas (working, sadly) and people either thought he was doing a poor job or in several cases just said things along the lines of "We're sorry - please don't mention him".
These were all professionals, working either in IT security or logistics management systems. They're not seeing an upturn in rail shipments - something they have seen previously when the economy has been on a upward path.
Bit like remainers only finding remainers then?I've just come back from Atlanta & Vegas (working, sadly) and people either thought he was doing a poor job or in several cases just said things along the lines of "We're sorry - please don't mention him".
These were all professionals, working either in IT security or logistics management systems. They're not seeing an upturn in rail shipments - something they have seen previously when the economy has been on a upward path.
Funny how these things work.
Byker28i said:
Despite being part of the transition team, had Trump read Comeys sacking letter to him, he's been trying to distance himself carefully away from Trump. He's playing the long game, was for a lot of 2017, positioning himself to be President when the inevitable happens, whilst not upsetting Trump.
I think he's implicated, will be sold out by other witnesses.
how much money have you bet on that outcome?!I think he's implicated, will be sold out by other witnesses.
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