How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)

[Allanv]

Trolleys Thank You said:

don'tbesilly said:

I didn't post the same thing, I've never posted that link before.

You state categorically that remaining as a member of the EU as was in June 2016 will be an option and will be the case, when the evidence by the EU's direction of travel since June 2016 suggests that wouldn't/couldn't be the case at all.

The option of remaining in the EU as a member as of June 2016, won't be an option, so voting on something that won't happen is irrelevant.

That wasn't the question though was it? If it was an option would you still support a 2nd referendum? Or will you only support a 2nd ref if one of the options is worse than the status quo?

Personally

1, Nope
2, Nope

Thank you for listening / reading.

Have a great day.

It is like joining a debate with Vicky Pollard, same st different day with you 3.


Yer but no but hang on, but me and MX5 etc etc

Edited by Allanv on Wednesday 10th October 19:50

[Trolleys Thank You]

B'stard Child said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

citizensm1th said:

B'stard Child said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

It's the people who insist on quoting all every time they post that clog up the thread.

I agree

I don't agree

I agree. It's the people who 'don't agree' as opposed to 'disagree'.

I diagree with you on that

Bugger. The dyslexics shall inherit the earth.

[Trolleys Thank You]

olimain said:

If it were possible to spell out these scenarios, e.g.:

We’ve taken the public’s instruction from 2016 and you now decide via a referendum:

-Here is the deal in detail we have negotiated and what it means for you
-Here is in detail what “no deal” means (hopefully the mutually beneficial basics such as planes/security cooperation/current residents) and what it means for you

Then I would think it sensible to ask the public in a 2nd ref. But in reality it isn’t - there’s so many variables, most of which we have no control of. Even “No Deal” requires third parties to agree what no deal actually means.

I think it is possible. Let the ERG come up with whatever the ERG come up with. That's probably as close to mainstream 'No Deal' as you're going to get. Would very much like a remain option on the ballot but if that doesn't happen then I admit your scenario is the next best option. Our future is far too important to leave to a handful of squabbling career MPs interpreting what we all meant.

Edited by Trolleys Thank You on Wednesday 10th October 19:58

Edited by Trolleys Thank You on Wednesday 10th October 19:59

[Allanv]

Allanv said:

Out of curiosity yet again Helicopter123 if there was a 2nd referendum and it went the way you want which is to stay you do realise that as article 50 has been invoked that the UK will have to reapply to the EU for membership?

They will insist on higher contributions / the Euro and the Schengen agreement, and you have to be foolish to think this will not happen due to the article 50 triggering.

Interesting the spell check for Schengen = Scavenge might just be a bug but anyway.

This is a reality more than the Peoples vote so think what you are asking for, it will be a cluster fork to reverse brexit.

Still no quote on this post it seems from anyone, I am wrong?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-articl...

Edited by Allanv on Wednesday 10th October 20:48

[CrutyRammers]

Ghibli said:

Garvin said:

Yes we can. May was voted for on the back of the Conservative manifesto which she is now attempting to walk away from wrt Brexit. She can most definitely be blamed. The Chequers abomination is hers and hers alone.

But you voted for her and nothing can be changed. Since Brent people aren't allowed to change their minds. We are leaving the EU next year and that is what was voted for. She will have fulfilled the Brexit dream for you.

Look, it's really simple.
Leavers are against a 2nd ref because it is transparently an attempt by remainers to reverse the outcome of the first one. That's all. It doesn't mean they wouldn't welcome a vote on different leave deals if they could be sure that it wouldn't be a stitch up. But since the risk of a stitch up is so high, it's a safer bet to oppose it outright.

[citizensm1th]

Trolleys Thank You said:

B'stard Child said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

citizensm1th said:

B'stard Child said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

It's the people who insist on quoting all every time they post that clog up the thread.

I agree

I don't agree

I agree. It's the people who 'don't agree' as opposed to 'disagree'.

I diagree with you on that

Bugger. The dyslexics shall inherit the earth.

You're all wrong and that's a end of it.

[Kenny Powers]

I see there’s a few vocal remainers continuing the old trick of doing a complete body swerve on tricky questions.

[The Dangerous Elk]

citizensm1th said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

B'stard Child said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

citizensm1th said:

B'stard Child said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

It's the people who insist on quoting all every time they post that clog up the thread.

I agree

I don't agree

I agree. It's the people who 'don't agree' as opposed to 'disagree'.

I diagree with you on that

Bugger. The dyslexics shall inherit the earth.

You're all wrong and that's a end of it.

sorry, late hear and not read the hole tread, dislexit what ? ?

[B'stard Child]

Trolleys Thank You said:

B'stard Child said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

citizensm1th said:

B'stard Child said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

It's the people who insist on quoting all every time they post that clog up the thread.

I agree

I don't agree

I agree. It's the people who 'don't agree' as opposed to 'disagree'.

I diagree with you on that

Bugger. The dyslexics shall inherit the earth.

Fat fingers phone keypad

[DeejRC]

The argument against a 2nd Referendum:

You dragged us to the bloody village hall to vote on it once already - some of us had to fly back from Europe do it in the first place!
Now just bloody get on with it and leave us the fk alone to get some actual work done!

At least next time I won't have to fly back from Europe to write my little X, but now Ive got to get back from Oxford to Devon before 10pm to tell you the same thing as last time.

I will agree with the resident Remain trolls about one thing: it is all too important to leave to a bunch of squabbling twits in London. But then so is pretty much everything important in life, therefore, I presume most sane ppl make it their business to ensure those squabbling twits in London have as little say in their life as possible.

[wc98]

CrutyRammers said:

Look, it's really simple.
Leavers are against a 2nd ref because it is transparently an attempt by remainers to reverse the outcome of the first one. That's all. It doesn't mean they wouldn't welcome a vote on different leave deals if they could be sure that it wouldn't be a stitch up. But since the risk of a stitch up is so high, it's a safer bet to oppose it outright.

personally i would be more than happy with another referendum with the exact same question as the last one. i cannot see any other result than an increase in the leave percentage.

[wc98]

B'stard Child said:

Fat fingers phone keypad

i thought it was a new word for when you disagree with something that resembles a puddle of runny st

[NJH]

DeejRC said:

I will agree with the resident Remain trolls about one thing: it is all too important to leave to a bunch of squabbling twits in London. But then so is pretty much everything important in life, therefore, I presume most sane ppl make it their business to ensure those squabbling twits in London have as little say in their life as possible.

Sadly not, and worse we have no option on the ballot paper for less intrusive government. The conservatives like to talk small government but the facts are that recent decades of either colour resulted in thousands of more laws, ever more intrusive government and more not less unaccountable quangos.

[powerstroke]

NJH said:

DeejRC said:

I will agree with the resident Remain trolls about one thing: it is all too important to leave to a bunch of squabbling twits in London. But then so is pretty much everything important in life, therefore, I presume most sane ppl make it their business to ensure those squabbling twits in London have as little say in their life as possible.

Sadly not, and worse we have no option on the ballot paper for less intrusive government. The conservatives like to talk small government but the facts are that recent decades of either colour resulted in thousands of more laws, ever more intrusive government and more not less unaccountable quangos.

Yes , and look how they stted themselves when for a little while UKIP looked like a real alternative for centre right voters
now UKIP has gone all batst muslim Robinson , Its back to big business and crony capitalism as usual ....

[Jockman]

Pressure growing on Macron.

Normandy warns Macron over cost of a hard Brexit

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/normandy-warns-...

Approval rating heading below 30% and unable to organise a cabinet reshuffle as people refuse to join him.

In the interest of balance, the US also points out that a no deal outcome will affect the special relationship.

[SpeckledJim]

Time for Europeans to start asking what the personal cost to them is of satisfying Brussels' pique.

There's a misalignment between what the people of Europe want to do (trade and interact nicely) and what Brussels wants to do (make an example of the UK, head-off dissent amongst member states, protect the project).

Very, very difficult for the EU to damage the UK's position without doing similar damage to the trading partners (buying or selling) on the other side of the channel.

We don't buy from and sell to 'Europe' in an ephemeral, woolly way.

We buy from and sell to real people and real businesses 'in Europe'. These people vote, pay tax, and make noise.

Time to hear them ask Brussels where their duty lies.

[Garvin]

The cracks are now showing in the business communities of both Germany and France as they were bound to given the EU approach. Is this additional pressure too late, we shall see but it is clear that the level of discomfort is definitely growing within the EU business communities.

[Jockman]

Italy will be of a similar concern than Brexit. Even its ignoring of budget constraints is based on some highly optimistic growth assumptions.

[Digga]

Garvin said:

The cracks are now showing in the business communities of both Germany and France as they were bound to given the EU approach. Is this additional pressure too late, we shall see but it is clear that the level of discomfort is definitely growing within the EU business communities.

Just had a meeting with a German colleague. He's pretty sanguine about Brexit; he thinks that, at the very end, after all the grandstanding of the EU great and good, the cold, hard facts of economics and trade will trump all other concerns and a deal will be done.

[Jockman]

Digga said:

Just had a meeting with a German colleague. He's pretty sanguine about Brexit; he thinks that, at the very end, after all the grandstanding of the EU great and good, the cold, hard facts of economics and trade will trump all other concerns and a deal will be done.

The U.K. has pledged to keep the markets open even after a disorderly brexit. The EU has made no such pledge. This scares the fook out of the IMF.