Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)

[loafer123]

When you run hotels, you have to get three things right;

1 Comfortable bed
2 Good shower
3 Strong Wifi

The other stuff is important, but those are the key things.

It is the same thing for the government.

If the average voter is employed, with wages rising and a decent place to live, can get healthcare, educate their kids and go on holiday, that will get the government relected.

All the other policy stuff is mostly noise.

[blueg33]

F1GTRUeno said:

The Tories in power right now continue to enact horrendous policy after horrendous policy and make a balls up of basically everything.

They’ll get elected again because the opposition is worse and can’t get their shot together.

Between propaganda, echo chambers and the general idiocy of the popular voting against their self interests, the buck is very firmly nowhere near stopping with our politicians.

I often wonder if those of the working class who fking despised Thatcher would have voted to give her more autonomy by getting rid of Europe like they have done with people with a similar disdain of their class now or whether that hatred would’ve overruled them.

Obviously if you’re a Tory and also if you benefit from their policies then you’ll think it’s fine and dandy.

I've always voted Tory (except last election). I think this lot are incompetent fools and the result of a personality cult, where the personality is a lying buffoon

[JeffreyD]

loafer123 said:

When you run hotels, you have to get three things right;

1 Comfortable bed
2 Good shower
3 Strong Wifi

The other stuff is important, but those are the key things.

It is the same thing for the government.

If the average voter is employed, with wages rising and a decent place to live, can get healthcare, educate their kids and go on holiday, that will get the government relected.

All the other policy stuff is mostly noise.

Whilst I agree with this post - "strong wifi" is a relatively recent requirement for a hotel (certainly within the last 15 years)

To use your analogy the government could provide great beds and showers but lose out to the opposition who realise the popularity of wifi before the next election.

[skwdenyer]

loafer123 said:

When you run hotels, you have to get three things right;

1 Comfortable bed
2 Good shower
3 Strong Wifi

The other stuff is important, but those are the key things.

It is the same thing for the government.

If the average voter is employed, with wages rising and a decent place to live, can get healthcare, educate their kids and go on holiday, that will get the government relected.

All the other policy stuff is mostly noise.

Indeed. And when the Cameron government couldn't manage to achieve any of those objectives, it successfully managed to deflect attention towards the EU. You've got to hand it to them, they were good at that bit

[crankedup5]

JeffreyD said:

loafer123 said:

When you run hotels, you have to get three things right;

1 Comfortable bed
2 Good shower
3 Strong Wifi

The other stuff is important, but those are the key things.

It is the same thing for the government.

If the average voter is employed, with wages rising and a decent place to live, can get healthcare, educate their kids and go on holiday, that will get the government relected.

All the other policy stuff is mostly noise.

Whilst I agree with this post - "strong wifi" is a relatively recent requirement for a hotel (certainly within the last 15 years)

To use your analogy the government could provide great beds and showers but lose out to the opposition who realise the popularity of wifi before the next election.

IIRC corbyn went down the road of free WiFi for all as one of his GE manifesto promises. It got lost
in the ‘every thing free’ rain storm he presided over. As others have said, until Labour sort themselves out and become a credible political party the Tory party will continue to be in No 10.
Having said that I see The Reform Party are gathering some traction, a heck of a long road in front of them though.

[skwdenyer]

crankedup5 said:

IIRC corbyn went down the road of free WiFi for all as one of his GE manifesto promises. It got lost
in the ‘every thing free’ rain storm he presided over. As others have said, until Labour sort themselves out and become a credible political party the Tory party will continue to be in No 10.
Having said that I see The Reform Party are gathering some traction, a heck of a long road in front of them though.

So looking back on things with the benefit of hindsight, what did Corbyn get wrong?


1. Increase health budget by 4.3%

That's *less* than Johnson is giving them.


2. Raise minimum wage from £8.21 to £10

Everybody's now saying a benefit of Brexit is rising wages. Corbyn's offer was spot-on.


3. Introduce a National Care Service (England)

This matches only what Scotland offers already. Johnson is now going most of the way there.


4. Bring forward net-zero target

Johnson is doing this


5. Give EU nationals the right to remain

Didn't matter either way. They've all applied to remain


6. Build 100,000 council homes a year

One way or another, this is going to happen. Johnson will do it with private / social providers.


7. Free basic broadband

That would have been handy, given so many children struggled to get online during Covid. And, in the end, AIUI BT stepped in and did some of this. So it happened sort of, and frankly is very small beer in the grand scheme of things.


8. Free bus travel for under-25s

Always seemed reasonable to me. The costs of public transport are widely misunderstood. Back in the 1980s, Livingstone was going to make the Tube free - because the cost of ticket machines, barriers, staff, maintenance, etc. were larger than the income from tickets

But this one was hardly a bonanza of cash.


9. Scrap Universal Credit

This wasn't "free every thing" - it was trying to fix a system almost everybody involves thinks is terrible.


10. Abolish private schools' charitable status

This will probably still happen eventually. They are plainly businesses in all but name.


11. Stop state pension age rises

I doubt this will happen for all the good economic reasons.


12. Nationalise key industries

So this was probably the biggie. It is pretty much the only one of these 12 that is genuinely controversial.

First, Johnson is already doing this with 1 of Corbyn's targets: rail operating companies are coming back into public ownership.

The other 3 were the Royal Mail, energy supply networks, water and sewerage companies. But nationalising these did not involve giving "free stuff" to voters.


I'd say Nationalisation and a Second Referendum were the really contentious issues. The rest have either been embraced completely by Johnson, or are likely to happen in one way or another in any case.

[Tuna]

Well worth reading:

https://twitter.com/hockendougal/status/1438538388...

"What's going on with global supply chains? (aka "why are we running out of everthing," "why is shipping so slow," "why are things more expensive"). A link roundup thread:"

[blueg33]

We now have delays in our factory production as a result of Brexit. Panel make up has to be sent to Ireland for fire testing. Paperwork was all spot on but there are delays in processing at customs. As a result we have missed our lab slot despite allowing 4 weeks more than recommended.

Previously it was seamless

[Tuna]

skwdenyer said:

Tuna said:

CAP is widely accepted to be hugely damaging to our farming industries, but was designed to 'level the field' of a continent that was anything but level.

Yes, it was a levelling up agenda

Wow, you really are trying to argue black is white here - levelling up for who exactly?

skwdenyer said:

More seriously, the Government is now proposing to pay UK farmers to give up farming, whilst others here are seemingly happy to say that farming reliant upon EU labour to pick produce should just turn up its toes and die. Some will bleat about "efficiency" conveniently ignoring that huge mechanised farms (a) work only on a fraction of UK land, (b) are antithetical to the environmental imperatives of our time, and (c) could in any case have been pursued pre-Brexit so are hardly a solution previously unavailable to us.

That poxy CAP; oh how we miss it now!

I've never seen anyone attempt to defend CAP before - do you honestly think that rewarding land ownership was encouraging UK farmers to actually farm?

skwdenyer said:

No, the EU is large enough to trade with itself. That's the point. What products or classes of products are uniquely available to the EU from the UK?

This will be news to China, the City, the pharmaceutical industry they tried to kidnap during Covid and a whole bunch of others..

"The EU doesn't need you, bugger off!" that is remarkably parochial of you, and if you take your logic seriously, suggests we had no place within the EU either, doesn't it?

[Mortarboard]

Tuna said:

Well worth reading:

https://twitter.com/hockendougal/status/1438538388...

"What's going on with global supply chains? (aka "why are we running out of everthing," "why is shipping so slow," "why are things more expensive"). A link roundup thread:"

Bad timing for brexit then. Never mind, I'm sure Gove will fix it all in jig time. Maybe Hugh Fernley-whittingstal can do foraging classes.
M.

[Oilchange]

skwdenyer said:

So looking back on things with the benefit of hindsight, what did Corbyn get wrong?

.

Corbyns policies could have been 100% credible. Fact was if any were or turned out to be useful it was more luck than judgement, a stopped clock etc.

What Corbyn got wrong was being Corbyn such as the small matter of siding with every terrorist under the sun against the UK.

He could have campaigned in silence for all I care, I'd never have voted for him while I had breath in my body.

Edited by Oilchange on Friday 17th September 19:49

[Ivan stewart]

blueg33 said:

We now have delays in our factory production as a result of Brexit. Panel make up has to be sent to Ireland for fire testing. Paperwork was all spot on but there are delays in processing at customs. As a result we have missed our lab slot despite allowing 4 weeks more than recommended.

Previously it was seamless

Previously !! Sent to Ireland for testing ?
Why can’t your company do it here !!
So much for the environment things going back and to and all that !!! Madness I tell thee !!!

[Mortarboard]

Ivan stewart said:

blueg33 said:

We now have delays in our factory production as a result of Brexit. Panel make up has to be sent to Ireland for fire testing. Paperwork was all spot on but there are delays in processing at customs. As a result we have missed our lab slot despite allowing 4 weeks more than recommended.

Previously it was seamless

Previously !! Sent to Ireland for testing ?
Why can’t your company do it here !!
So much for the environment things going back and to and all that !!! Madness I tell thee !!!

Just a wild guess here, and I'm sure blue will confirm should he so wish, but perhaps the tested material is easier to export from Ireland than the UK

M.

[Ivan stewart]

Mortarboard said:

Ivan stewart said:

blueg33 said:

We now have delays in our factory production as a result of Brexit. Panel make up has to be sent to Ireland for fire testing. Paperwork was all spot on but there are delays in processing at customs. As a result we have missed our lab slot despite allowing 4 weeks more than recommended.

Previously it was seamless

Previously !! Sent to Ireland for testing ?
Why can’t your company do it here !!
So much for the environment things going back and to and all that !!! Madness I tell thee !!!

Just a wild guess here, and I'm sure blue will confirm should he so wish, but perhaps the tested material is easier to export from Ireland than the UK

M.

Why ??is there as special leprechaun that puts a magic spell on them ??

Edited by Ivan stewart on Friday 17th September 20:25

[Mortarboard]

Ivan stewart said:

Mortarboard said:

Ivan stewart said:

blueg33 said:

We now have delays in our factory production as a result of Brexit. Panel make up has to be sent to Ireland for fire testing. Paperwork was all spot on but there are delays in processing at customs. As a result we have missed our lab slot despite allowing 4 weeks more than recommended.

Previously it was seamless

Previously !! Sent to Ireland for testing ?
Why can’t your company do it here !!
So much for the environment things going back and to and all that !!! Madness I tell thee !!!

Just a wild guess here, and I'm sure blue will confirm should he so wish, but perhaps the tested material is easier to export from Ireland than the UK

M.

Why ??is there as special leprechaun that puts a magic spell on them ??

Edited by Ivan stewart on Friday 17th September 20:25

I think there may have been some changes to the UK's trading relationship with some parts of the world recently.

M.

[Sway]

Mortarboard said:

Ivan stewart said:

Mortarboard said:

Ivan stewart said:

blueg33 said:

We now have delays in our factory production as a result of Brexit. Panel make up has to be sent to Ireland for fire testing. Paperwork was all spot on but there are delays in processing at customs. As a result we have missed our lab slot despite allowing 4 weeks more than recommended.

Previously it was seamless

Previously !! Sent to Ireland for testing ?
Why can’t your company do it here !!
So much for the environment things going back and to and all that !!! Madness I tell thee !!!

Just a wild guess here, and I'm sure blue will confirm should he so wish, but perhaps the tested material is easier to export from Ireland than the UK

M.

Why ??is there as special leprechaun that puts a magic spell on them ??

Edited by Ivan stewart on Friday 17th September 20:25

I think there may have been some changes to the UK's trading relationship with some parts of the world recently.

M.

Which make zero difference in this context...

Four ADDITIONAL weeks, for a shipment and return from Ireland?

You need new logistics partners, or a better logistics team. That's utter nonsense, and simply has to be rooted in incompetence somewhere in the chain.

[Tuna]

Sway said:

Which make zero difference in this context...

Four ADDITIONAL weeks, for a shipment and return from Ireland?

You need new logistics partners, or a better logistics team. That's utter nonsense, and simply has to be rooted in incompetence somewhere in the chain.

"But it's how we always did it, when we were in the EU!"

[Mortarboard]

Two fine clairvoyants we have here.

If it needed a CE certification (or a sub check needed for it), I'd argue 4 weeks was rather sharpish.

After all, the UK says no to maintaining EU standards.
And the UK didn't want to negotiate equivalence.

So if the customer wants a CE certified doodad, it's not getting that certification in the UK.

I'm sure if blue wishes he can put more light on the reasons. Probably knows more than you or I.

But my example of CE marking remains valid, even if it's not the case in this particular instance.

M.

[sunbeam alpine]

Tuna said:

Sway said:

Which make zero difference in this context...

Four ADDITIONAL weeks, for a shipment and return from Ireland?

You need new logistics partners, or a better logistics team. That's utter nonsense, and simply has to be rooted in incompetence somewhere in the chain.

"But it's how we always did it, when we were in the EU!"

It's very easy for you guys to criticise, but these things do happen.

Since Brexit I've had 4 lorry loads of agricultural product held up at Hull because UK customs suddenly decided they needed veterinary certificates (they didn't), and we'd already shipped 20 lorry loads of the same product through the port. This took 12 days to sort out.

I've also had 1 lorry load (trailer) delivered to Hull with papers for Zeebrugge, which somehow managed to get put onto a ship to Rotterdam, and was immediately impounded by Dutch customs. This took just over 3 weeks to get it released.

For balance, we're currently back to pre-Brexit timescales (I've cursed myself now! ) and transport costs have dropped so the "Brexit effect" is nearly gone.

[Sway]

Mortarboard said:

Two fine clairvoyants we have here.

If it needed a CE certification (or a sub check needed for it), I'd argue 4 weeks was rather sharpish.

After all, the UK says no to maintaining EU standards.
And the UK didn't want to negotiate equivalence.

So if the customer wants a CE certified doodad, it's not getting that certification in the UK.

I'm sure if blue wishes he can put more light on the reasons. Probably knows more than you or I.

But my example of CE marking remains valid, even if it's not the case in this particular instance.

M.

No, your example of CE marking doesn't remain valid - CE testing (unlike CCC when first introduced, now that was a REAL fkING PAIN...) doesn't have to be done within the EEA.

We still self certify and CE Mark our products.

The OP's post specifically calls out customs.

There hasn't been a single change in the UK/EU trading relationship that would cause a legitimately justifiable month delay for moving goods...