Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 5)
Discussion
IforB said:
As for Brown. Please show us the report or proof that he did those things and I will happily and roundly condemn him.
Do not attempt to suggest that there are any double standards. Workplace bullies are appalling and she is one. Your utterly incorrect attempt to try and attack me as you believe I condone someone else doing someone else despite zero evidence of me having said or done that, is quite a startling amount of utter nonsense, even by your standards.
In other words. Get back in your box. You are talking absolute rubbish.
A simple google will provide dozens of links, including from the Guardian and Indie. But of course, your standard of proof for Brown will be rather higher than it is for Patel. The stories around Brown are manifold, and include physically manhandling people, as well as throwing phones, office equipment and pens at people. He is also said to have dragged a typist from her chair in frustration that she was typing too slowly for his liking. Do not attempt to suggest that there are any double standards. Workplace bullies are appalling and she is one. Your utterly incorrect attempt to try and attack me as you believe I condone someone else doing someone else despite zero evidence of me having said or done that, is quite a startling amount of utter nonsense, even by your standards.
In other words. Get back in your box. You are talking absolute rubbish.
I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
andymadmak said:
A simple google will provide dozens of links, including from the Guardian and Indie. But of course, your standard of proof for Brown will be rather higher than it is for Patel. The stories around Brown are manifold, and include physically manhandling people, as well as throwing phones, office equipment and pens at people. He is also said to have dragged a typist from her chair in frustration that she was typing too slowly for his liking.
I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
Brown should have been held to the same account as Patel, higher in fact as he was PM. The fact he was not, or the fact other politicians of any colour rosette were not does not excuse Patel's behaviour. I posited elsewhere it may have become an institutional malaise under the watch of Cummings, but neither does that excuse bullying and poor management. The world is thankfully changing, politicians should get off their own merry go round of malpractice amd catch up with todays standards rather than hiding behind their position I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
andymadmak said:
IforB said:
As for Brown. Please show us the report or proof that he did those things and I will happily and roundly condemn him.
Do not attempt to suggest that there are any double standards. Workplace bullies are appalling and she is one. Your utterly incorrect attempt to try and attack me as you believe I condone someone else doing someone else despite zero evidence of me having said or done that, is quite a startling amount of utter nonsense, even by your standards.
In other words. Get back in your box. You are talking absolute rubbish.
A simple google will provide dozens of links, including from the Guardian and Indie. But of course, your standard of proof for Brown will be rather higher than it is for Patel. The stories around Brown are manifold, and include physically manhandling people, as well as throwing phones, office equipment and pens at people. He is also said to have dragged a typist from her chair in frustration that she was typing too slowly for his liking. Do not attempt to suggest that there are any double standards. Workplace bullies are appalling and she is one. Your utterly incorrect attempt to try and attack me as you believe I condone someone else doing someone else despite zero evidence of me having said or done that, is quite a startling amount of utter nonsense, even by your standards.
In other words. Get back in your box. You are talking absolute rubbish.
I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
Feel free to go and stand in a corner and scream about the world. I am sure it will make you feel better.
As it is, you are quite simply making stuff up. You sound unhinged. Are you currently working as a lawyer for one D. Trump? I think you would fit in nicely.
biggbn said:
andymadmak said:
A simple google will provide dozens of links, including from the Guardian and Indie. But of course, your standard of proof for Brown will be rather higher than it is for Patel. The stories around Brown are manifold, and include physically manhandling people, as well as throwing phones, office equipment and pens at people. He is also said to have dragged a typist from her chair in frustration that she was typing too slowly for his liking.
I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
Brown should have been held to the same account as Patel, higher in fact as he was PM. The fact he was not, or the fact other politicians of any colour rosette were not does not excuse Patel's behaviour. I posited elsewhere it may have become an institutional malaise under the watch of Cummings, but neither does that excuse bullying and poor management. The world is thankfully changing, politicians should get off their own merry go round of malpractice amd catch up with todays standards rather than hiding behind their position I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
andymadmak said:
A simple google will provide dozens of links, including from the Guardian and Indie. But of course, your standard of proof for Brown will be rather higher than it is for Patel. The stories around Brown are manifold, and include physically manhandling people, as well as throwing phones, office equipment and pens at people. He is also said to have dragged a typist from her chair in frustration that she was typing too slowly for his liking.
I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
Andy reading some of those links he sounds like he has a vile tempter.I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
I'll use the excuse that I wasn't anything like as interested in politics back then which you can choose to believe or not but if he behaved like that he sounds unfit for the office which is something the electorate decided for themselves for a whole range of reasons.
I would humbly point out something that feel obvious which is that you're talking about "reports said" which people seemed very quick to dismiss where Patel was concerned (it was those pesky civil servants or people who had it in for her) v "the independent advisor on ministerial standards has found that".
I don't think we can make Brown resign twice a bit like we can't with Rutnam but if you can show me anything even close to "the independent advisor on ministerial standards has found that" around Brown's behaviour I'd agree that he should have resigned for it.
IforB said:
NotMine said:
I think it was Gordon had good liars to cover up his anger and move attention away.
If you have proof of that, then feel free to post it. What is your opinion of the proven bullying charges against Patel?
It is in the Guardian so must be true.
IforB said:
andymadmak said:
IforB said:
As for Brown. Please show us the report or proof that he did those things and I will happily and roundly condemn him.
Do not attempt to suggest that there are any double standards. Workplace bullies are appalling and she is one. Your utterly incorrect attempt to try and attack me as you believe I condone someone else doing someone else despite zero evidence of me having said or done that, is quite a startling amount of utter nonsense, even by your standards.
In other words. Get back in your box. You are talking absolute rubbish.
A simple google will provide dozens of links, including from the Guardian and Indie. But of course, your standard of proof for Brown will be rather higher than it is for Patel. The stories around Brown are manifold, and include physically manhandling people, as well as throwing phones, office equipment and pens at people. He is also said to have dragged a typist from her chair in frustration that she was typing too slowly for his liking. Do not attempt to suggest that there are any double standards. Workplace bullies are appalling and she is one. Your utterly incorrect attempt to try and attack me as you believe I condone someone else doing someone else despite zero evidence of me having said or done that, is quite a startling amount of utter nonsense, even by your standards.
In other words. Get back in your box. You are talking absolute rubbish.
I've no doubt that Patel should not be HS, so I'm not sure what box you'd like me to get into. Perhaps you just don't like your double standards being pointed out to you? Your apparent ignorance regarding Brown is not credible.
Feel free to go and stand in a corner and scream about the world. I am sure it will make you feel better.
As it is, you are quite simply making stuff up. You sound unhinged. Are you currently working as a lawyer for one D. Trump? I think you would fit in nicely.
As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
Vanden Saab said:
IforB said:
NotMine said:
I think it was Gordon had good liars to cover up his anger and move attention away.
If you have proof of that, then feel free to post it. What is your opinion of the proven bullying charges against Patel?
It is in the Guardian so must be true.
I am assuming you have read it?
If it was 100% true wih no embellishments at all, then he sounds like he was off his rocker.
However, all of the incidents mentioned in the article are of him losing his temper and acting like a nut job, but in relative isolation, other than grabbing someone, not to have a go at them personally, but to exclaim "they are all out to get me."
Deeply unpleasant and there is never an excuse for grabbing anyone, but, very different from physically attacking them or psychologically abusing them on a personal basis.
Throwing a wobbler in the back of the car and walloping the upholstery in frustration is not bullying, it is a loss of composure and deeply idiotic.
Throwing tantrums is pathetic, but at the same time, bullying and harrasment has a specific meaning. Creating a horrendous working environment by being a bad tempered nut job, is not a personal attack on an individual. So these incidents, whilst they shoe his unsuitability to lead and manage people are absolutely no proof on bullying.
I note in the article too. A report was commissioned. However, I have never seen it. If it exists and supports the idea he was a bully, then please post it and we can all continue to be thankful he is no longer PM.
The problem we have here, is that there IS a report on Patel. She has been found to have acted in a bullying manner and breached the code and yet she is still in post and able to continue acting as she wishes, whilst those she has abused, are left knowing that their very real complaints are meaningless and have been ignored.
That is a proper kick in the teeth to them.
If this is today's tack in trying to excuse the utterly immoral behaviour of Patel, Joh son and the rest of the Tory cabinet who have come out in support of the "Prittster" ten you'll need to do a lot better than this.
andymadmak said:
Oh dear. I have said several times that Patel should not be HS. You know this, so why are you suggesting that I am trying to deflect from Patel?
As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
So should Johnson still be PM for condoning her behaviour and ignoring the report? As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
IforB said:
andymadmak said:
Oh dear. I have said several times that Patel should not be HS. You know this, so why are you suggesting that I am trying to deflect from Patel?
As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
So should Johnson still be PM for condoning her behaviour and ignoring the report? As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
IforB said:
andymadmak said:
Oh dear. I have said several times that Patel should not be HS. You know this, so why are you suggesting that I am trying to deflect from Patel?
As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
So should Johnson still be PM for condoning her behaviour and ignoring the report? As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
Johnson might not have done what you wanted him to do, but that doesn't support what you're claiming does it.
don'tbesilly said:
Yet Johnson hasn't ignored the report nor has he condoned her behaviour.
Johnson might not have done what you wanted him to do, but that doesn't support what you're claiming does it.
When you let someone who has bullied people from a position of power stay in post you are condoning the bullying.Johnson might not have done what you wanted him to do, but that doesn't support what you're claiming does it.
There will hopefully be a level of bullying behaviour that would have cause him to sack her and this wasn't it.
The only conclusion is that Johnson clearly thinks that some degree of bullying of junior staff by a Home Secretary is acceptable.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:don'tbesilly said:
Yet Johnson hasn't ignored the report nor has he condoned her behaviour.
Johnson might not have done what you wanted him to do, but that doesn't support what you're claiming does it.
When you let someone who has bullied people from a position of power stay in post you are condoning the bullying.Johnson might not have done what you wanted him to do, but that doesn't support what you're claiming does it.
There will hopefully be a level of bullying behaviour that would have cause him to sack her and this wasn't it.
The only conclusion is that Johnson clearly thinks that some degree of bullying of junior staff by a Home Secretary is acceptable.
don'tbesilly said:
Yet Johnson hasn't ignored the report
He quite clearly has, though not before attempting to influence the author in order to have it toned down.It was asked above whether this affects Boris' suitability to be PM. In my view it does, as he has hired someone with a history of bullying allegations. That person has since been responsible for multiple resignations of senior staff on the basis of bullying, one of whom sued the government and has subsequently had to be paid off. A report into the behaviour confirmed that it was s breach of the ministerial code. Boris' response has been to ignore the damage and the report and to stifle any further conversation over it, 'considers the matter now closed'.
If organisations allow bullying and the leadership fail to act on it, whilst at the same time paying out employment claims and receiving confirmatory reports that bullying is going on, what conclusion can you reach other than their approval?
That is not the kind of government I want leading us.
Alucidnation said:
IforB said:
andymadmak said:
Oh dear. I have said several times that Patel should not be HS. You know this, so why are you suggesting that I am trying to deflect from Patel?
As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
So should Johnson still be PM for condoning her behaviour and ignoring the report? As for screaming in the corner, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have a real issue with being told things that you don't want to believe. Your suggestion that I am making stuff up is beyond bizarre, especially when the information surrounding Browns behaviour is available from multiple sources. Do yourself a favour and go read some of it. You'll look less like a frothing red fanboy if you do.
For the avoidance of any doubt (and to stop you pretending I am saying something that I am not) - Patel should not be HS.
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