Teen girl punched to the ground ..
Discussion
lazyitus said:
And no, I'm not agreeing with you.
So baying mobs ARE acceptable?
You must be being obtuse. You must be...just in case, every thread about some news story about a 'heinous' crime which brings out the usual mob calling for the perpetrator to be either killed, maimed, tortured, made to suffer the same fate as his victim(s), bummed in the showers etc etc etc. There are a few almost every week, it seems. They appear to be based solely on media reporting of cases and not on actual, known or experienced facts. They also generally display a lack of knowledge of the law and the UK's judicial systems and processes.
Pothole said:
AJS- said:
When he gets out in two years he most certainly will do something similar again, and will quite possibly do more damage than chipped teeth and bruising
How, exactly do you know this with such certainty?If he was 25 and had clobbered a willing, or at least antagonistic participant in a pub brawl, and been more successful than he anticipated, then it might just be put down to a mistake or an excess of force. A reasonable sentence should put him off doing it again.
At a last ditch, just maybe she did give him an especially snooty look at and especially bad time and in an uncharacteristic moment of madness he went to give her a slap. This alone would make him a pretty despicable thug, but would at least be a aberration.
But he is none of those. He's a 34 year old man, who in the middle of a working day (wasn't it?) decided he was going to unleash an incredibly violent surprise attack on a 16 year old girl who he thought didn't have a very friendly face. And it now turns out he did this twice.
I'm a 34 year old man, and I can't conceive of punching someone who was no real threat to me. In the extremes of my anger at bad driving I might think it would be blessed relief to punch someone for a piece of stupidity, or when I read a story like this one I feel as though I would like to see Ayoade get a good kicking. To think that someone is walking around with those sort of emotions all the time, and is actually prepared to unleash them on a defenceless teenage girl is simply awful.
Why would he change? What will happen in those 4 years to make him think that he ought to get a job and start behaving like a civilised human being?
Lotusevoraboy said:
4 years is actually quite a decent sentence. At uni a decade ago a gang of local lads attacked me and 3 friends. 1 died. The lad who delivered the killer blow had previous for beating a student half to death 2 years earlier. He got 4 years max for killing my mate. System stinks. He'll kill again, I'm sure.
That's awful. I wouldn't say it makes Ayoade's sentence just, but I agree that it's not the worst. I presume it was manslaughter or some such contrivance to relieve the police of calling intentional and malicious killing something as awful as murder?Pothole said:
To save any confusion, I've answered below in reverse order:
So baying mobs ARE acceptable?
You must be being obtuse. You must be...just in case, every thread about some news story about a 'heinous' crime which brings out the usual mob calling for the perpetrator to be either killed, maimed, tortured, made to suffer the same fate as his victim(s), bummed in the showers etc etc etc. There are a few almost every week, it seems. They appear to be based solely on media reporting of cases and not on actual, known or experienced facts. They also generally display a lack of knowledge of the law and the UK's judicial systems and processes.
Agreed, however now the case is over we know a few things, unless of course those nasty journalists made all this up and the footage was fake.So baying mobs ARE acceptable?
You must be being obtuse. You must be...just in case, every thread about some news story about a 'heinous' crime which brings out the usual mob calling for the perpetrator to be either killed, maimed, tortured, made to suffer the same fate as his victim(s), bummed in the showers etc etc etc. There are a few almost every week, it seems. They appear to be based solely on media reporting of cases and not on actual, known or experienced facts. They also generally display a lack of knowledge of the law and the UK's judicial systems and processes.
Scrote had no justification for the attack other that she 'intimidated' him.
He, a fairly well built 34 year old, runs at a slim 16 year old girl and smashes(sorry for the emotive language but I can't really think of another word which describes the punch) her to the ground unconcious.
It is not that I have no idea how our criminal justice system works. It is more that I don't think it does. 2 years jail will not, IMHO of course, deter anyone who decides to act in this way.
I really don't like the thought of sharing my freedom with people who act like this and would welcome any plan which meant I didn't have to.
Pothole said:
So baying mobs ARE acceptable?
You must be being obtuse.
No. Now you're trying to force words into my mouth. Step back to my original post, please. I suggested that a baying mob serves a purpose from a natural point of view. Law and nature often conflict.You must be being obtuse.
My opinions on whether I think it's right or wrong are my own opinions and I haven't shared those opinions publicly on here.
I don't appreciate name calling or tags.
AJS- said:
Pothole said:
AJS- said:
When he gets out in two years he most certainly will do something similar again, and will quite possibly do more damage than chipped teeth and bruising
How, exactly do you know this with such certainty?If he was 25 and had clobbered a willing, or at least antagonistic participant in a pub brawl, and been more successful than he anticipated, then it might just be put down to a mistake or an excess of force. A reasonable sentence should put him off doing it again.ditto
At a last ditch, just maybe she did give him an especially snooty look at and especially bad time and in an uncharacteristic moment of madness he went to give her a slap. This alone would make him a pretty despicable thug, but would at least be a aberration.
But he is none of those. He's a 34 year old man, who in the middle of a working day (wasn't it?) decided he was going to unleash an incredibly violent surprise attack on a 16 year old girl who he thought didn't have a very friendly face. And it now turns out he did this twice.
I'm a 34 year old man, and I can't conceive of punching someone who was no real threat to me. In the extremes of my anger at bad driving I might think it would be blessed relief to punch someone for a piece of stupidity, or when I read a story like this one I feel as though I would like to see Ayoade get a good kicking. To think that someone is walking around with those sort of emotions all the time, and is actually prepared to unleash them on a defenceless teenage girl is simply awful.how do you know he was walking around with them 'all the time'? You don't, or have you been speaking to him? (after qualifying as a clinical psychologist or similar, of course) I agree, it is simply awful, but does that mean he should be killed, as some on this thread have advocated? You also SAY you can't conceive of doing it yourself, yet you were happy to wish it on the judge earlier in this thread...why should I trust you?
Why would he change?why not? We don't really know anything about him or what help he may receive in prison to deal with whatever it is which has influenced his behaviour on these two occasions What will happen in those 4 years to make him think that he ought to get a job and start behaving like a civilised human being?perhaps the same as happened to your fictional 19 year old, what makes you right and me wrong? Just guesswork on both sides, eh?
southendpier said:
Lotusevoraboy said:
4 years is actually quite a decent sentence. At uni a decade ago a gang of local lads attacked me and 3 friends. 1 died. The lad who delivered the killer blow had previous for beating a student half to death 2 years earlier. He got 4 years max for killing my mate. System stinks. He'll kill again, I'm sure.
Sounds dreadful. What was the charge?Pothole
There's nothing really certain, whether you're a clinical psychologist or not. He obviously carried that frame of mind around with him often enough to assault two people. That makes him a danger to society?
Where did I wish anything about killing him or wishing harm on the judge? I think he should have been given a meaningful sentence that will keep him off the streets for a long time, and provide a strong deterrent to anyone who might otherwise do the same.
As to guess work - is it really that controversial to say that people are more likely to change their ways at 19 than at 35?
There's nothing really certain, whether you're a clinical psychologist or not. He obviously carried that frame of mind around with him often enough to assault two people. That makes him a danger to society?
Where did I wish anything about killing him or wishing harm on the judge? I think he should have been given a meaningful sentence that will keep him off the streets for a long time, and provide a strong deterrent to anyone who might otherwise do the same.
As to guess work - is it really that controversial to say that people are more likely to change their ways at 19 than at 35?
AJS- said:
Pothole
There's nothing really certain, whether you're a clinical psychologist or not. He obviously carried that frame of mind around with him often enough to assault two people. That makes him a danger to society?
Where did I wish anything about killing him or wishing harm on the judge? I think he should have been given a meaningful sentence that will keep him off the streets for a long time, and provide a strong deterrent to anyone who might otherwise do the same.
As to guess work - is it really that controversial to say that people are more likely to change their ways at 19 than at 35?
I apologise, I skimmed the following: "I hope the judge in this case gets to meet Ayoade again when he does some real harm or kills someone." and misinterpreted.There's nothing really certain, whether you're a clinical psychologist or not. He obviously carried that frame of mind around with him often enough to assault two people. That makes him a danger to society?
Where did I wish anything about killing him or wishing harm on the judge? I think he should have been given a meaningful sentence that will keep him off the streets for a long time, and provide a strong deterrent to anyone who might otherwise do the same.
As to guess work - is it really that controversial to say that people are more likely to change their ways at 19 than at 35?
'often enough'? You mean twice? I'm not sure that makes him a 'danger to society' no, but I don't know.
I don't know whether it's controversial or not. Do you have access to statistics which support your assertion? Surely it depends on the cause of his actions. If it's a mental illness then he might well respond just as well to treatment as any 19 year old, no?
I'm not sure there's any point to discussing this further as neither if us has access to the full facts of the case. My position is that I'd rather we didn't form up with burning torches based on -by their nature-sensationlist media reports. If there is a problem with sentencing then that can be addressed by the proper channels. It is not for us to dispense or advocate summary justice.
f
k him.
the british legal system needs to grow a pair and start ridding the country of imported undesirables.
i would like ALL immigrants, even those claiming asylum (amongst other benefits), to have to sign contract that says commit a serious crime and get deported.
we have enough home bred thugs without importing more.
k him. the british legal system needs to grow a pair and start ridding the country of imported undesirables.
i would like ALL immigrants, even those claiming asylum (amongst other benefits), to have to sign contract that says commit a serious crime and get deported.
we have enough home bred thugs without importing more.
dudleybloke said:
fk him.
the british legal system needs to grow a pair and start ridding the country of imported undesirables.
i would like ALL immigrants, even those claiming asylum (amongst other benefits), to have to sign contract that says commit a serious crime and get deported.
we have enough home bred thugs without importing more.
There is, IMHO, another part to the argument.k him. the british legal system needs to grow a pair and start ridding the country of imported undesirables.
i would like ALL immigrants, even those claiming asylum (amongst other benefits), to have to sign contract that says commit a serious crime and get deported.
we have enough home bred thugs without importing more.
We have long had a very admirable reputation as a nation which does our fair share of homing genuine refugees, displaced by war, despotic regimes, political persecution and the like. However, it seems absurd to grant entry for those who are persecuted whilst also allowing virtually un-hindered access to any or every of their persecutors.
Pothole said:
I apologise, I skimmed the following: "I hope the judge in this case gets to meet Ayoade again when he does some real harm or kills someone." and misinterpreted.
'often enough'? You mean twice? I'm not sure that makes him a 'danger to society' no, but I don't know.
I don't know whether it's controversial or not. Do you have access to statistics which support your assertion? Surely it depends on the cause of his actions. If it's a mental illness then he might well respond just as well to treatment as any 19 year old, no?
I'm not sure there's any point to discussing this further as neither if us has access to the full facts of the case. My position is that I'd rather we didn't form up with burning torches based on -by their nature-sensationlist media reports. If there is a problem with sentencing then that can be addressed by the proper channels. It is not for us to dispense or advocate summary justice.
Yes that is enough to make him a menace in my view.'often enough'? You mean twice? I'm not sure that makes him a 'danger to society' no, but I don't know.
I don't know whether it's controversial or not. Do you have access to statistics which support your assertion? Surely it depends on the cause of his actions. If it's a mental illness then he might well respond just as well to treatment as any 19 year old, no?
I'm not sure there's any point to discussing this further as neither if us has access to the full facts of the case. My position is that I'd rather we didn't form up with burning torches based on -by their nature-sensationlist media reports. If there is a problem with sentencing then that can be addressed by the proper channels. It is not for us to dispense or advocate summary justice.
It would be nice to have everything backed up by statistics, peer reviewed and to have reliable cures for every problem people have. However that’s not the world we live in. I know from personal experience that 34 year old men who see fit to do that aren’t going to mend their ways and become all nice and friendly on the basis of chatting with a psychologist.
AJS- said:
Pothole said:
I apologise, I skimmed the following: "I hope the judge in this case gets to meet Ayoade again when he does some real harm or kills someone." and misinterpreted.
'often enough'? You mean twice? I'm not sure that makes him a 'danger to society' no, but I don't know.
I don't know whether it's controversial or not. Do you have access to statistics which support your assertion? Surely it depends on the cause of his actions. If it's a mental illness then he might well respond just as well to treatment as any 19 year old, no?
I'm not sure there's any point to discussing this further as neither if us has access to the full facts of the case. My position is that I'd rather we didn't form up with burning torches based on -by their nature-sensationlist media reports. If there is a problem with sentencing then that can be addressed by the proper channels. It is not for us to dispense or advocate summary justice.
Yes that is enough to make him a menace in my view.'often enough'? You mean twice? I'm not sure that makes him a 'danger to society' no, but I don't know.
I don't know whether it's controversial or not. Do you have access to statistics which support your assertion? Surely it depends on the cause of his actions. If it's a mental illness then he might well respond just as well to treatment as any 19 year old, no?
I'm not sure there's any point to discussing this further as neither if us has access to the full facts of the case. My position is that I'd rather we didn't form up with burning torches based on -by their nature-sensationlist media reports. If there is a problem with sentencing then that can be addressed by the proper channels. It is not for us to dispense or advocate summary justice.
It would be nice to have everything backed up by statistics, peer reviewed and to have reliable cures for every problem people have. However that’s not the world we live in. I know from personal experience that 34 year old men who see fit to do that aren’t going to mend their ways and become all nice and friendly on the basis of chatting with a psychologist.
Vipers said:
AJS- said:
True, but it rather negates being on a discussion forum in the first place. When justice is not seen to be done, the mob will try to see to it.
Indeed the time will come, we are fed up of these judges dishing out meaningless sentences.
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