Gay asylum seekers from Iran and Cameroon win appeal.

[bonsai]

Can't blame them. This is what happens to gays in Iran.

[Parrot of Doom]

MX7 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

MX7 said:

We are not being targeted because of some extraordinary benevolence that exists here, but because they know that they will be able to rely on the state to a far greater degree than they would get away with in other countries.

Do you have anything to support this assertion, or is it based merely on your suspicions?

I've seen people interviewed at the camps in France who openly admit why they want to come here. In this case, they both left their own continent, and then travelled right the way across another continent to get here. If their only concern was that the law in their countries didn't permit their sexuality, they could have both moved to neighbouring countries.

Or perhaps they aim for this country because we're one of the most tolerant open societies in the world.

I love how, in some people's minds, it always boils down to "they're only here for our money".

[Police State]

Parrot of Doom said:

JagLover said:

A matter of personal opinion IMO.

Personally I think £50k spent on the aid budget, on say schools or medical aid, is doing far more for the poorest parts of the world than the same amount spent supporting some Somali single mother, and without the negative long term impact on the country.

IMO the asylum system is one that should have long since been scrapped as it has just become a means to circumvent immigration controls.

So no more asylum seekers then? What a lovely country we'd be, sending people back to an almost certain death.

or a possible alternative scenario is that they would seek asylum in some other country; one perhaps that they passed through on the way to Ambrosia...

[Shay HTFC]

MX7 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

MX7 said:

We are not being targeted because of some extraordinary benevolence that exists here, but because they know that they will be able to rely on the state to a far greater degree than they would get away with in other countries.

Do you have anything to support this assertion, or is it based merely on your suspicions?

I've seen people interviewed at the camps in France who openly admit why they want to come here. In this case, they both left their own continent, and then travelled right the way across another continent to get here. If their only concern was that the law in their countries didn't permit their sexuality, they could have both moved to neighbouring countries.

Do you think that our neighbouring countries are void of asylum seekers? Do you think that every single person who seeks asylum in the EU makes there way to the UK? Or do you think that maybe we only hear about the cases that involve the UK and don't hear about the cases that involve people seeking asylum in other parts of the EU?

I think that a lot of British people seem to think that 100% of asylum seekers from outside of the EU head for the UK. That is not the case at all.

[Uncle Fester]

The trouble is that everyone has an identity that is far more complex than simply ‘a persecuted whatever’ they come with all the other cultural norms of their own society. Many have come here seeking relief from something, poverty, oppression, whatever. They have found freedom from the thing that they sought to evade but kept all the other emotional baggage of their upbringing.

After centuries of evolving a tolerant society that those who are truly entitled can turn to for sanctuary, we are diluting it at an unsustainable pace.

There is a great tradition of us taking in deserving refugees and assimilating them, thus preserving our society for others in their hour of need. Now we are taking in all and sundry and affirming their ‘right’ to preserve all aspects of their identity instead of assimilating.

By acceding to the demands of the immigrant populations and falsely conceptualising their demands as rights instead of insisting upon them assimilating, there must come a time when the intolerance of their home cultures becomes the intolerance of our culture.

By attempting to create multiculturalism and admitting the right for other cultures to superimpose their values here, we validate their not only their values, but their prejudices too.

These particular asylum seekers tend to come from Islamic societies that abhor homosexuality. Now countries across Europe face demands from elements within immigrant populations to establish a global Caliphate subject to Islamic Sharia law. We give hope to those calling for Sharia law by acts such as empowering Sharia Courts as a form of dispute resolution, which has already passed into UK law. Attitudes towards gays, both immigrant and home grown in a society giving equal rights to Sharia law would be a serious retrograde step for the gay community.

There seems little point in accepting gay individuals here if we also accept the right of immigrants to remove the tolerance. A few years from now the gays who come to us seeking refuge will need to relocate again if we allow the religious prejudice here too.

[MX7]

Shay HTFC said:

MX7 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

MX7 said:

We are not being targeted because of some extraordinary benevolence that exists here, but because they know that they will be able to rely on the state to a far greater degree than they would get away with in other countries.

Do you have anything to support this assertion, or is it based merely on your suspicions?

I've seen people interviewed at the camps in France who openly admit why they want to come here. In this case, they both left their own continent, and then travelled right the way across another continent to get here. If their only concern was that the law in their countries didn't permit their sexuality, they could have both moved to neighbouring countries.

Do you think that our neighbouring countries are void of asylum seekers?

What? No, where did I imply that?

Shay HTFC said:

Do you think that every single person who seeks asylum in the EU makes there way to the UK?

What sort of answers are you expecting? This is silly.

Shay HTFC said:

Or do you think that maybe we only hear about the cases that involve the UK and don't hear about the cases that involve people seeking asylum in other parts of the EU?

Of course.

Shay HTFC said:

I think that a lot of British people seem to think that 100% of asylum seekers from outside of the EU head for the UK. That is not the case at all.

I don't think anyone thinks that.

The point is that you have to make a much greater effort to get to the UK than more southern parts of Europe, or to your neighbouring country, if it's a tolerance to homosexuality that you are seeking, and you have to ask why someone would make that much effort.

How do you explain the camps in Calais?

Edited by MX7 on Thursday 8th July 07:48

[FarleyRusk]

If we follow the left-wing view then we are *obliged* to help absolutely eveyone. This would be an impossible drain on the economy and result in a developed country that does this becoming as poor as the ones that it was trying to help. Oh wait. That is the socialist agenda though, isn't it?

My view is that we cannot help everyone of course. I am not prepared to give up my lifestyle to prevent starvation, malnutrition, bad government and oppression that is common in many parts of the world. Call me selfish if you like, I really don't care.

If the lefties want to sell all their possessions and donate all *their* 'excess' wealth to the poor, oppressed and generally needy then they are welcome to do so (and I'm so sure that all the lefties on this thread have already done that, right)?. Just don't expect that everyone else will do the same!

[HOGEPH]

zax said:

This thread needs more puns! The whole thing sounds like a bum deal for the UK...

Shut that door!

[MX7]

Parrot of Doom said:

MX7 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

MX7 said:

We are not being targeted because of some extraordinary benevolence that exists here, but because they know that they will be able to rely on the state to a far greater degree than they would get away with in other countries.

Do you have anything to support this assertion, or is it based merely on your suspicions?

I've seen people interviewed at the camps in France who openly admit why they want to come here. In this case, they both left their own continent, and then travelled right the way across another continent to get here. If their only concern was that the law in their countries didn't permit their sexuality, they could have both moved to neighbouring countries.

Or perhaps they aim for this country because we're one of the most tolerant open societies in the world.

Are they seeking somewhere where their sexuality is permitted, or are they wanting to go to as many Gay Pride marches as possible? If you are being discriminated against, I would have thought that anywhere that permits your sexuality would be a far better option that your own country.

It's strange to think that we are considered an 'open' country, as I thought that most of the world considered us quite prudish, sexually at least.

[Deva Link]

Flintstone said:

colonel c said:

Oh no it's OK she just won them back again.

What on Earth is all that about?

I tried Googling to find out, but seems there's another, NSFW, Teresa May. :yikes!

[bobbylondonuk]

Why are we even having this debate? Isnt Asylum supposed to be applied to the nearest safe state outside of the applicants state of origin?

We should not be dealing with most Asylum seekers at all as they should all be applying in other countries closer to home!!!! Oh well..wait till UK working population and tax receipts are zilch..wonder how many people will come over then?

[Shay HTFC]

MX7 said:

Shay HTFC said:

MX7 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

MX7 said:

We are not being targeted because of some extraordinary benevolence that exists here, but because they know that they will be able to rely on the state to a far greater degree than they would get away with in other countries.

Do you have anything to support this assertion, or is it based merely on your suspicions?

I've seen people interviewed at the camps in France who openly admit why they want to come here. In this case, they both left their own continent, and then travelled right the way across another continent to get here. If their only concern was that the law in their countries didn't permit their sexuality, they could have both moved to neighbouring countries.

Do you think that our neighbouring countries are void of asylum seekers?

What? No, where did I imply that?

Shay HTFC said:

Do you think that every single person who seeks asylum in the EU makes there way to the UK?

What sort of answers are you expecting? This is silly.

Shay HTFC said:

Or do you think that maybe we only hear about the cases that involve the UK and don't hear about the cases that involve people seeking asylum in other parts of the EU?

Of course.

Shay HTFC said:

I think that a lot of British people seem to think that 100% of asylum seekers from outside of the EU head for the UK. That is not the case at all.

I don't think anyone thinks that.

The point is that you have to make a much greater effort to get to the UK than more southern parts of Europe, or to your neighbouring country, if it's a tolerance to homosexuality that you are seeking, and you have to ask why someone would make that much effort.

How do you explain the camps in Calais?

Edited by MX7 on Thursday 8th July 07:48

Logic dictates that for whatever reason, we will get some asylum seekers, just as other countries do. Otherwise somewhere like Greece would be overrun with asylum seekers. It makes much better sense to have them spread thinly across a larger number of countries whether that occurs organically or through organised means.

The Daily Mail is so ste. It spouts so much st that little Englanders just love to lap up. For example how we are being overrun by asylum seekers when half of the people on this forum have probably never actually seen an asylum seeker.

[MX7]

Shay HTFC said:

MX7 said:

Shay HTFC said:

MX7 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

MX7 said:

We are not being targeted because of some extraordinary benevolence that exists here, but because they know that they will be able to rely on the state to a far greater degree than they would get away with in other countries.

Do you have anything to support this assertion, or is it based merely on your suspicions?

I've seen people interviewed at the camps in France who openly admit why they want to come here. In this case, they both left their own continent, and then travelled right the way across another continent to get here. If their only concern was that the law in their countries didn't permit their sexuality, they could have both moved to neighbouring countries.

Do you think that our neighbouring countries are void of asylum seekers?

What? No, where did I imply that?

Shay HTFC said:

Do you think that every single person who seeks asylum in the EU makes there way to the UK?

What sort of answers are you expecting? This is silly.

Shay HTFC said:

Or do you think that maybe we only hear about the cases that involve the UK and don't hear about the cases that involve people seeking asylum in other parts of the EU?

Of course.

Shay HTFC said:

I think that a lot of British people seem to think that 100% of asylum seekers from outside of the EU head for the UK. That is not the case at all.

I don't think anyone thinks that.

The point is that you have to make a much greater effort to get to the UK than more southern parts of Europe, or to your neighbouring country, if it's a tolerance to homosexuality that you are seeking, and you have to ask why someone would make that much effort.

How do you explain the camps in Calais?

Edited by MX7 on Thursday 8th July 07:48

Logic dictates that for whatever reason, we will get some asylum seekers, just as other countries do. Otherwise somewhere like Greece would be overrun with asylum seekers. It makes much better sense to have them spread thinly across a larger number of countries whether that occurs organically or through organised means.

And?...

I'm not opposing all asylum.

Shay HTFC said:

The Daily Mail is so ste. It spouts so much st that little Englanders just love to lap up. For example how we are being overrun by asylum seekers when half of the people on this forum have probably never actually seen an asylum seeker.

What?! Where did the Daily Mail rant come from? The article is BBC. I'm sure you can do better than dismiss anyone who finds it peculiar that someone would cross dozens of tolerant countries, who all abide by the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, to seek asylum here, as a petty minded little Englander. An irrelevant and disconnected Daily Mail'ish rant about the Daily Mail!

So, why are the camps in Calais there?


I think that Ed West makes a good point.

"In which case, why does Britain give that country £6.8m a year in foreign aid? In fact why do we give money to so many countries that persecute people for their sexuality? The DfID map shows that British taxpayers give money to some of the most rabidly anti-gay states in the world."

If these places are so oppressive that people have to seek asylum elsewhere, should we really be supporting them? I'd suggest that each gay asylum seeker we accept, is a step towards excusing the continuation of oppressive laws in other countries.

[JagLover]

Shay HTFC said:

For example how we are being overrun by asylum seekers

Asylum claims have reached 80,000 a year in recent years, though are considerably lower now (around 30,000). Which is a level that will have a significant impact on both the population and costs to the taxpayer.

Immigration needs to be managed for the benefit of both our society and economy. Letting in tens of thousands a year (plus relations if given permission to settle) of unskilled asylum seekers is not achieving this.

[stackmonkey]

All the usual suspects posting above, with the usual points of view..

What ever your views on the subject, I'll just point out that the proportion of asylum seekers claiming asylum on the basis of their sexuality (eg persecution for being gay in their home country) is a very low proportion of asylum seekers. Secondly, the success rate of gay asylum seekers in gaining asylum here is lower than the overall rate, at about 2%. The actual number of gay asylum seekers being successful is vanishingly small, in the context.

[odyssey2200]

stackmonkey said:

All the usual suspects posting above, with the usual points of view..

What ever your views on the subject, I'll just point out that the proportion of asylum seekers claiming asylum on the basis of their sexuality (eg persecution for being gay in their home country) is a very low proportion of asylum seekers. Secondly, the success rate of gay asylum seekers in gaining asylum here is lower than the overall rate, at about 2%. The actual number of gay asylum seekers being successful is vanishingly small, in the context.

So far.

I suspect that will spike very soon once word get out.

[Sheets Tabuer]

Cameroon’s communications minister told the BBC homosexuals were free to behave as they wished in private without any harassment.
“Homosexuality is forbidden by the law, there is no doubt. But what I can emphasise is the fact that no homosexual is persecuted in Cameroon”
He told the BBC’s Network Africa programme that the claimant was simply using the law as an excuse to claim asylum in Britain.

"Do you think he is the only gay person in Cameroon?”