Buy to let unethical ?

[superlightr]

drainbrain said:

Is it not a lot simpler just to plainly explain the circumstances to them so that those only looking for short term (as so many are in an age of high mobility and fast changing circumstances) take it further, but others, hoping for something a bit longer lasting, say "o, right, that doesn't really suit me. Got anything else"?

hardly ever comes up 99.5% are long term. as mentioned yes we do/would for 6mth only but no we don't explicitly for a 12 only as from my experience of our LL its too variable to change anyway we are talking a few a year at most of those 12mths only. vast majority will be 12mth long term aim

also any short ones are normally small properties so single occupants and no kids which are more set up to transient type tenants.

we don't issue longer than12mths in any event.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 27th September 20:58

[drainbrain]

superlightr said:

hardly ever comes up 99.5% are long term. as mentioned yes we do/would for 6mth only but no we don't explicitly for a 12 only as from my experience of our LL its too variable to change anyway we are talking a few a year at most of those 12mths only. vast majority will be 12mth long term aim

also any short ones are normally small properties so single occupants and no kids which are more set up to transient type tenants.

we don't issue longer than12mths in any event.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 27th September 20:58

Okay. Strikes me it'd make life a lot easier if the tenancy was suited to the tenants needs and prevent all that hassle later on when you'll have enough on your plate explaining to the owner why the performance didn't live up to his expectations.

Another thing interests me. A bloke comes in and gives you the keys on Jan 2nd, telling you he may well be back next Jan 2nd to get his flat back. You've a tenant to fish for, to select, and to check the references of. Plus of course a shedload of stuff to do preparatory to commencing the tenancy. So one way or another it might well be Feb 2nd or even later before the tenancy commences.

How do you give a tenant a 12 month contract if the landlord might be back in 11 months (or less) for the keys back?

[superlightr]

drainbrain said:

superlightr said:

hardly ever comes up 99.5% are long term. as mentioned yes we do/would for 6mth only but no we don't explicitly for a 12 only as from my experience of our LL its too variable to change anyway we are talking a few a year at most of those 12mths only. vast majority will be 12mth long term aim

also any short ones are normally small properties so single occupants and no kids which are more set up to transient type tenants.

we don't issue longer than12mths in any event.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 27th September 20:58

Okay. Strikes me it'd make life a lot easier if the tenancy was suited to the tenants needs and prevent all that hassle later on when you'll have enough on your plate explaining to the owner why the performance didn't live up to his expectations.

Another thing interests me. A bloke comes in and gives you the keys on Jan 2nd, telling you he may well be back next Jan 2nd to get his flat back. You've a tenant to fish for, to select, and to check the references of. Plus of course a shedload of stuff to do preparatory to commencing the tenancy. So one way or another it might well be Feb 2nd or even later before the tenancy commences.

How do you give a tenant a 12 month contract if the landlord might be back in 11 months (or less) for the keys back?

we would advertise it 2 mth before the 2 jan ! - but yes LL need to be flexible by a few weeks. if we really cant extend the TA then it would be for a 11mth or 10 mth etc. Hardly ever comes up. would be very difficult to get exact match for the days. Also warn the LL of the risk if the tenant stays on etc.

[drainbrain]

superlightr said:

we would advertise it 2 mth before the 2 jan ! - but yes LL need to be flexible by a few weeks. if we really cant extend the TA then it would be for a 11mth or 10 mth etc. Hardly ever comes up. would be very difficult to get exact match for the days. Also warn the LL of the risk if the tenant stays on etc.

Hmmm. Bit of a hassle, isn't it? And that's before addressing the real nitty gritty hassles of these "off to work abroad" 'landlords'.

Like I said, we just barred them. Sent them on to agencies that would deal with them. But then you've only got 0.5% of your stock of that type. So what's that then? 1 ? 2? lol! Wait till you deal with the row that ensues when you explain "wear and tear" to them

Actually, given the subject of the thread, imo encouraging this sector to carry out this brainless plan isn't really best advice. One way or another it ends as a car crash!

I mean, imagine if they come back from this job abroad and they've paid for landlord registration, gas, Elec, pat , and legionella checks, legislative fire equipment installation, agency fees of manifold types, a bit of CT when the dwelling's unoccupied, had to change arrangements with insurers and lenders, make accountancy and HMRC arrangements inc the crazy special arrangement for landlords domiciled abroad, and everything else I've forgotten.....

Then they find there's a war with the neighbours over the mess the tenants made of the driveway, the commercial waste or whatever dumped for the 'hood to tut tut over and the flipping' noise of the tenant's van coming in and out at all hours! And that's before he's set foot in the place to see how the tenant's used the place!! LOL! Coz if that crap's on the driveway, you just know what's inside, don't you!!

And you take all this punishment for 10 months commission? Take my advice. Get ethical. Instead of taking them on, tell them not to bother, or send them to your competitor to enjoy their eye opening learning experience and waste his time instead.

[GrizzlyBear]

We are well past any workable solution to the problem. Build millions more to depress prices and we have the next banking crisis.
[/quote]

So your solution is to sustain the current market?

I would have thought a better solution would be to actually building homes, we can't build millions of houses overnight, but I can't see millions are needed as there aren't millions of homeless people, it is more miss-allocation that is the issue.

I would say it is not BTL that is unethical it is the way the current market has been sustained with subsidies and ultra low rates (funding for lending scheme and term funding effectively guaranteeing low rates), which obviously makes the market very easy for those who bought at lower prices, and very difficult for those trying to buy in now. of course they also stop the market correcting, which I am guessing is what the politicians really want while they are in power.

Oddly it is not even ultra low base rate that even needs to change, just the funding schemes that are keeping high street rates low.

[superlightr]

drainbrain said:

superlightr said:

we would advertise it 2 mth before the 2 jan ! - but yes LL need to be flexible by a few weeks. if we really cant extend the TA then it would be for a 11mth or 10 mth etc. Hardly ever comes up. would be very difficult to get exact match for the days. Also warn the LL of the risk if the tenant stays on etc.

Hmmm. Bit of a hassle, isn't it? And that's before addressing the real nitty gritty hassles of these "off to work abroad" 'landlords'.

Like I said, we just barred them. Sent them on to agencies that would deal with them. But then you've only got 0.5% of your stock of that type. So what's that then? 1 ? 2? lol! Wait till you deal with the row that ensues when you explain "wear and tear" to them

Actually, given the subject of the thread, imo encouraging this sector to carry out this brainless plan isn't really best advice. One way or another it ends as a car crash!

I mean, imagine if they come back from this job abroad and they've paid for landlord registration, gas, Elec, pat , and legionella checks, legislative fire equipment installation, agency fees of manifold types, a bit of CT when the dwelling's unoccupied, had to change arrangements with insurers and lenders, make accountancy and HMRC arrangements inc the crazy special arrangement for landlords domiciled abroad, and everything else I've forgotten.....

Then they find there's a war with the neighbours over the mess the tenants made of the driveway, the commercial waste or whatever dumped for the 'hood to tut tut over and the flipping' noise of the tenant's van coming in and out at all hours! And that's before he's set foot in the place to see how the tenant's used the place!! LOL! Coz if that crap's on the driveway, you just know what's inside, don't you!!

And you take all this punishment for 10 months commission? Take my advice. Get ethical. Instead of taking them on, tell them not to bother, or send them to your competitor to enjoy their eye opening learning experience and waste his time instead.

as said few in % terms of that short of fixed tenancy.

fortunate that we no longer have real hassle.(hence why I can post on PH some of the gentle issues to get a different perspective) too long in the tooth for real hassle, been there done that. Things set up well so hassle doesn't happen very often, clients are happy, tenants happy and we are happy as well.

the "off to work abroad landlords " are clients we do well with - again no real issues. we manage expectations and work hard to make sure it is successful for them.

property values we look after are generally pretty high so we don't take too much punishment !! lol. never though of getting paid commission as punishment ! if I did then we would decline that LL/end the involvement.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 27th September 23:17

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 27th September 23:22

[Colonial]

The investment property market in Australia is highly unethical - massive tax concessions for "mum and dad investors" to purchase property and then rent it out, driving up the prices quite dramatically. Has a very negative impact on first home buyers and lower income earners.

Doesn't seem to be the case in anywhere near the degree in the UK.

[Bibbs]

Colonial said:

The investment property market in Australia is highly unethical - massive tax concessions for "mum and dad investors" to purchase property and then rent it out, driving up the prices quite dramatically. Has a very negative impact on first home buyers and lower income earners.

Doesn't seem to be the case in anywhere near the degree in the UK.

I disagree.

There needs to be concessions as the higher interest rates (especially for investment properties) means higher payments. Most of which doesn't get covered by the rent.

[Colonial]

Bibbs said:

I disagree.

There needs to be concessions as the higher interest rates (especially for investment properties) means higher payments. Most of which doesn't get covered by the rent.

It distorts the activity of the free market by providing subsidies for one buying group whilst not providing any similar incentives for other buyers (owner occupiers).

[Bibbs]

Colonial said:

It distorts the activity of the free market by providing subsidies for one buying group whilst not providing any similar incentives for other buyers (owner occupiers).

Meh.

If there were not the insentives, we'd all be renting off the Chinese.

[Pothole]

Bristol spark said:

Isn't it also the fact you need earnings of way more than the national average wage to get a mortgage.

Individually perhaps. My wife and I our just buying my first property (she did it before with her first mistake) and we each earn just on the national average wage. Mind you, I only managed to get a deposit because my late mother's care home costs didn't use up all my inheritance. I'm lucky (?) to live in an area where a decent sized 3 bed semi in a quiet cul de sac is £180k-190k so we can do it for about the same as we're paying in rent (for a property in the same postcode - we're only moving from #31 to #13)

It's not as terrible as the mainstream sensationalist media is making out, not everywhere. I know I'm luckier than many, though, and I've waited until my early 50s to be able to do this!

[Colonial]

Bibbs said:

Meh.

If there were not the insentives, we'd all be renting off the Chinese.

Except foreign nationals are prohibited from purchasing any property except off the plan.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Colonial said:

It distorts the activity of the free market by providing subsidies for one buying group whilst not providing any similar incentives for other buyers (owner occupiers).

Owner occupiers enjoy tax free growth in the value of the property.