Helping the police....
Discussion
FraserLFA said:
But if the kids were the bad guys, and the police hadn't given them a second look, they'd still be getting bashed by the public. They can't win whatever they do.
How many criminals rob a car then call the owner and the police and wait by the car for them to arrive? If the story is broadly as reported (which may or may not be the case) then these officers are morons.Puggit said:
Investigate by all means, but to arrest the plod should have a solid reason...
The UK has one of the lowest burdens of proof required for arrest in the western world. I'm not trying to plod bash here (There's SP&L for that...), but it's very easy for our police to just arrest everyone and sort it out later.By contrast, the burden of proof required in the US is quite high. This is why the US immigration dept puts quite a high stock on any arrest records, even when no charges are subsequntly brought.
These two kids are now technically unable to take advantage of the visa waiver entry requirements to the US, and if thy plan to go on holiday there, they actually need to apply for visas at the US Embassy.
carmonk said:
How many criminals rob a car then call the owner and the police and wait by the car for them to arrive? If the story is broadly as reported (which may or may not be the case) then these officers are morons.
Indeed. Hey Officer, could you please come and remove this child from the car I've stolen so I can drive off in it... Oh, wait....
carmonk said:
FraserLFA said:
But if the kids were the bad guys, and the police hadn't given them a second look, they'd still be getting bashed by the public. They can't win whatever they do.
How many criminals rob a car then call the owner and the police and wait by the car for them to arrive? If the story is broadly as reported (which may or may not be the case) then these officers are morons.As someone posted, the police were between the devil and the deep blue... And lets face it, they have probably heard every BS story going from crims trying to talk their way out of something.
However, if the boys had reported the car and the said child in the back, why arrest them at all? Simply ask them help with the investigation at the station, without formally arresting them. That way they don't get their reps stained by an arrest, or their DNA on record. Not sure all the options were explored here.
It is kinda sad though. Do good and get arrested. Ignore something and allow the possible consqences to play out, and you go scot free.
This country is upside down.
However, if the boys had reported the car and the said child in the back, why arrest them at all? Simply ask them help with the investigation at the station, without formally arresting them. That way they don't get their reps stained by an arrest, or their DNA on record. Not sure all the options were explored here.
It is kinda sad though. Do good and get arrested. Ignore something and allow the possible consqences to play out, and you go scot free.
This country is upside down.
Tell you what boils my piss though; none of this would have happened, were it not for the idiot owner leaving his keys in the ignition.
At our village shop, old dodderers still leave the f
king things running when they go in for a paper and at the local filling station I once pointed out to a bloke that he'd left his keys in his car. His bovine respnse was, "well it's a company car and it's insured", to which I had the wit to immediately reply, "in which case you'd likely be sacked and, insured or not, it's no consolation to the family of someone killed by joyriders". I usually only think of these replies in retrospect.
At our village shop, old dodderers still leave the f
king things running when they go in for a paper and at the local filling station I once pointed out to a bloke that he'd left his keys in his car. His bovine respnse was, "well it's a company car and it's insured", to which I had the wit to immediately reply, "in which case you'd likely be sacked and, insured or not, it's no consolation to the family of someone killed by joyriders". I usually only think of these replies in retrospect.The legalities of arrest are pretty definate. Under Section 24 of pace there are specific Grounds required to fulfill arrest, and in order for custody to accept the arrested person, there has also to be reasons and 'necessity' The necessity test being the hot potato.
It's a bit indepth to go into here but google it for a bedtime read and you will see what I mean.
There are other ways to interview suspects, such as voluntary attenders, this is generally for lesser offences however can have the same effect as a charge following interview, which is reporting for summons, and if something comes out in interview, then the can be arrested for whatever offence it is, and then either charged/remanded, or charged/bailed.
Now, the newspapers being the newspapers we don't really know what happened here. If I turned up after being called by these lads saying it was a stolen car, and a child was inside then would I have need to question them, yes I would quite definately, however as per S24 Pace, would I arrest them? Maybe, maybe not, if I did I would have to justify this not only to custody but to the court should it go that far. Could I ask them to atttend voluntarily at the station, maybe however in this situation
hmmmm.
It's a bit indepth to go into here but google it for a bedtime read and you will see what I mean.
There are other ways to interview suspects, such as voluntary attenders, this is generally for lesser offences however can have the same effect as a charge following interview, which is reporting for summons, and if something comes out in interview, then the can be arrested for whatever offence it is, and then either charged/remanded, or charged/bailed.
Now, the newspapers being the newspapers we don't really know what happened here. If I turned up after being called by these lads saying it was a stolen car, and a child was inside then would I have need to question them, yes I would quite definately, however as per S24 Pace, would I arrest them? Maybe, maybe not, if I did I would have to justify this not only to custody but to the court should it go that far. Could I ask them to atttend voluntarily at the station, maybe however in this situation
hmmmm.Digga said:
His bovine respnse was, "well it's a company car and it's insured", to which I had the wit to immediately reply, "in which case you'd likely be sacked and, insured or not, it's no consolation to the family of someone killed by joyriders". I usually only think of these replies in retrospect.
If the car gets stolen with the keys in the ignition the insurance won't pay out, he didn't do all that is required to stop the car getting stolen. I worked for an insurance company and we didn't pay out when someone had done this.Maybe other insurance companies work differently though.
Always a question that is asked by Police calltakers "Was it stolen with keys"...
As far as I'm aware the insurance co doesn't pay out if taken with keys (in)
However a lot of vehicles are stolen as a result of a burglary, so in effect are stolen with keys but in different circumstances. I think this is where the insurance company vary their response.
As far as I'm aware the insurance co doesn't pay out if taken with keys (in)
However a lot of vehicles are stolen as a result of a burglary, so in effect are stolen with keys but in different circumstances. I think this is where the insurance company vary their response.
Perra said:
Digga said:
His bovine respnse was, "well it's a company car and it's insured", to which I had the wit to immediately reply, "in which case you'd likely be sacked and, insured or not, it's no consolation to the family of someone killed by joyriders". I usually only think of these replies in retrospect.
If the car gets stolen with the keys in the ignition the insurance won't pay out, he didn't do all that is required to stop the car getting stolen. I worked for an insurance company and we didn't pay out when someone had done this.Maybe other insurance companies work differently though.
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