MPs claim HMRC 'too cosy' with business
Discussion
.johnfm][url said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/89...
So, MPs who benefit from myriad expenses, second home allowances etc that NO OTHER TAX PAYER benefits from criticising HMRC.
Pot kettle black icon anywhere??
but who else do you expect to criticise them? So, MPs who benefit from myriad expenses, second home allowances etc that NO OTHER TAX PAYER benefits from criticising HMRC.
Pot kettle black icon anywhere??
from the point of view of SMEs (in particular small bussineses), HMRC are, without exception a bunch of
s. johnfm][url said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/89...
So, MPs who benefit from myriad expenses, second home allowances etc that NO OTHER TAX PAYER benefits from criticising HMRC.
Pot kettle black icon anywhere??
The MP's are right though [even if a bit hypocritical ].So, MPs who benefit from myriad expenses, second home allowances etc that NO OTHER TAX PAYER benefits from criticising HMRC.
Pot kettle black icon anywhere??
The HMRC can act in an excessively aggressive and intimidatory manner towards individuals and smaller business who are relatively powerless - even those who pay their tax : especially slapping on punitive / ramping fines even when no tax is owed [say if a "nil" return is a day late ]
.. whereas at the same time cosying up to large businesses and letting them off the hook on GBP millions of tax which they legitimately owe to HMRC. We'd be paying less income tax if HMRC were a bit better at collecting what they were owed from some large corporates.
If you owe HMRC one pound : you will be hounded
If you owe HMRC one billion : they will rollover and settle for a lot less.
should add I had a long conversation with HMRC last night re my small business corporation tax filing 
... an absolute piss boiler which just shows how fking horrendous their filing requirements are ...
me [based in SG ]: I cant seem to get the online CT system to work using my password / login etc
hmrc: you need a different set of authorisations to file CT online
me: I am already set up to use the HMRC on line business services and VAT so whats the issue
hmrc : but you need to get permission and new ID's for each additional section on our website you want to use
me : so lets do that online then - can you email me the additional details ?
hmrc: we will hand mail it to you at your old UK address
me : I cant access that for weeks ... and will impact my filing
hmrc : too bad
me : how about I hand mail you my annual return and Corp tax calcs ? and I actually owe NIL tax for the dormant co anyway
hmrc : we only allow you to file online now
me : but you are preventing that by restricting my access to a site I am already authorised to use
hrmc : too bad
me : so I will be now liable for fines then ?
hmrc : yes
thes have just about made it impossible to do what they ask ... so they can now whack me with a load of fines .... and I dont even owe any tax !
... an absolute piss boiler which just shows how fking horrendous their filing requirements are ... me [based in SG ]: I cant seem to get the online CT system to work using my password / login etc
hmrc: you need a different set of authorisations to file CT online
me: I am already set up to use the HMRC on line business services and VAT so whats the issue
hmrc : but you need to get permission and new ID's for each additional section on our website you want to use
me : so lets do that online then - can you email me the additional details ?
hmrc: we will hand mail it to you at your old UK address
me : I cant access that for weeks ... and will impact my filing
hmrc : too bad
me : how about I hand mail you my annual return and Corp tax calcs ? and I actually owe NIL tax for the dormant co anyway
hmrc : we only allow you to file online now
me : but you are preventing that by restricting my access to a site I am already authorised to use
hrmc : too bad
me : so I will be now liable for fines then ?
hmrc : yes
the
s have just about made it impossible to do what they ask ... so they can now whack me with a load of fines .... and I dont even owe any tax !It's a not a case of being "too cosy with business". The vast bulk of businesses (well over 90%) obtain no special favours from HMRC - believe me.
What is wrong here is that a very small selection of some very large businesses seem to have a separate set of rules being applied to them - which is manifestly unfair and unjust.
An example - HMRC have admitted that they "forgot" to charge £8 million worth of interest to a large telecommunnications company which paid its taxes late. They won't say who it was but it is believed to be Vodafone.
I have never come across any of my business clients getting such a break from HMRC.
What is wrong here is that a very small selection of some very large businesses seem to have a separate set of rules being applied to them - which is manifestly unfair and unjust.
An example - HMRC have admitted that they "forgot" to charge £8 million worth of interest to a large telecommunnications company which paid its taxes late. They won't say who it was but it is believed to be Vodafone.
I have never come across any of my business clients getting such a break from HMRC.
alfaman said:
should add I had a long conversation with HMRC last night re my small business corporation tax filing ... an absolute piss boiler which just shows how fking horrendous their filing requirements are ...
me [based in SG ]: I cant seem to get the online CT system to work using my password / login etc
hmrc: you need a different set of authorisations to file CT online
me: I am already set up to use the HMRC on line business services and VAT so whats the issue
hmrc : but you need to get permission and new ID's for each additional section on our website you want to use
me : so lets do that online then - can you email me the additional details ?
hmrc: we will hand mail it to you at your old UK address
me : I cant access that for weeks ... and will impact my filing
hmrc : too bad
me : how about I hand mail you my annual return and Corp tax calcs ? and I actually owe NIL tax for the dormant co anyway
hmrc : we only allow you to file online now
me : but you are preventing that by restricting my access to a site I am already authorised to use
hrmc : too bad
me : so I will be now liable for fines then ?
hmrc : yes
thes have just about made it impossible to do what they ask ... so they can now whack me with a load of fines .... and I dont even owe any tax !
Why isn't your accountant doing this for you. It takes me all of about 30 seconds to file my clients accounts, CT computations and CT returns. ... an absolute piss boiler which just shows how fking horrendous their filing requirements are ... me [based in SG ]: I cant seem to get the online CT system to work using my password / login etc
hmrc: you need a different set of authorisations to file CT online
me: I am already set up to use the HMRC on line business services and VAT so whats the issue
hmrc : but you need to get permission and new ID's for each additional section on our website you want to use
me : so lets do that online then - can you email me the additional details ?
hmrc: we will hand mail it to you at your old UK address
me : I cant access that for weeks ... and will impact my filing
hmrc : too bad
me : how about I hand mail you my annual return and Corp tax calcs ? and I actually owe NIL tax for the dormant co anyway
hmrc : we only allow you to file online now
me : but you are preventing that by restricting my access to a site I am already authorised to use
hrmc : too bad
me : so I will be now liable for fines then ?
hmrc : yes
the
s have just about made it impossible to do what they ask ... so they can now whack me with a load of fines .... and I dont even owe any tax !alfaman said:
hmrc: you need a different set of authorisations to file CT online
me: I am already set up to use the HMRC on line business services and VAT so whats the issue
Believe me, I know this because Mrs Digga is something of an authority on this, there is a difference and there does need to be one. PITA I know, but it has been explained to me (in words of not too many sylables and without too many acronyms or buzzwords) so that I am able to comprehend.me: I am already set up to use the HMRC on line business services and VAT so whats the issue
Eric Mc said:
It's a not a case of being "too cosy with business". The vast bulk of businesses (well over 90%) obtain no special favours from HMRC - believe me.
What is wrong here is that a very small selection of some very large businesses seem to have a separate set of rules being applied to them - which is manifestly unfair and unjust.
An example - HMRC have admitted that they "forgot" to charge £8 million worth of interest to a large telecommunnications company which paid its taxes late. They won't say who it was but it is believed to be Vodafone.
I have never come across any of my business clients getting such a break from HMRC.
Eric - I thought the 8m was interest of Golden Bags corp tax ..they didnt think they could charge interest when they could.What is wrong here is that a very small selection of some very large businesses seem to have a separate set of rules being applied to them - which is manifestly unfair and unjust.
An example - HMRC have admitted that they "forgot" to charge £8 million worth of interest to a large telecommunnications company which paid its taxes late. They won't say who it was but it is believed to be Vodafone.
I have never come across any of my business clients getting such a break from HMRC.
IIRC Vodafone was a billion + ?
Eric Mc said:
It's a not a case of being "too cosy with business". The vast bulk of businesses (well over 90%) obtain no special favours from HMRC - believe me.
What is wrong here is that a very small selection of some very large businesses seem to have a separate set of rules being applied to them - which is manifestly unfair and unjust.
An example - HMRC have admitted that they "forgot" to charge £8 million worth of interest to a large telecommunnications company which paid its taxes late. They won't say who it was but it is believed to be Vodafone.
I have never come across any of my business clients getting such a break from HMRC.
I don't know whether the argument really holds water, but isn't there a school of thought that it's better to get something out of these large corporation than hound them into moving offshore?What is wrong here is that a very small selection of some very large businesses seem to have a separate set of rules being applied to them - which is manifestly unfair and unjust.
An example - HMRC have admitted that they "forgot" to charge £8 million worth of interest to a large telecommunnications company which paid its taxes late. They won't say who it was but it is believed to be Vodafone.
I have never come across any of my business clients getting such a break from HMRC.
HMRC fired a senior taxman a few years who was considered too close to the businesses he was dealing with (he was being wined and dined by them etc) but at the same time he was credited with bringing in large amounts of tax that they'd been struggling to collect. The current HMRC boss seems to have done pretty well on the wining and dining front.
You essentially need separate authorisations to file electronically the different forms relating to the different taxes -
Corporation Tax
VAT
PAYE/NIC
Construction Industry Tax
Income Tax
Your accountant can do an awful lot of this for you, once he/she has been set up as your filing agent.
Corporation Tax
VAT
PAYE/NIC
Construction Industry Tax
Income Tax
Your accountant can do an awful lot of this for you, once he/she has been set up as your filing agent.
Deva Link said:
I don't know whether the argument really holds water, but isn't there a school of thought that it's better to get something out of these large corporation than hound them into moving offshore?
HMRC fired a senior taxman a few years who was considered too close to the businesses he was dealing with (he was being wined and dined by them etc) but at the same time he was credited with bringing in large amounts of tax that they'd been struggling to collect. The current HMRC boss seems to have done pretty well on the wining and dining front.
There is that argument - and I am all in favour of reducing the tax burdens on ALL businesses - not just the big boys. 90% of business in the UK is carried out by small operations. HMRC fired a senior taxman a few years who was considered too close to the businesses he was dealing with (he was being wined and dined by them etc) but at the same time he was credited with bringing in large amounts of tax that they'd been struggling to collect. The current HMRC boss seems to have done pretty well on the wining and dining front.
The same rules should apply to ALL businesses. In actual fact, the same rules DO apply - it's just that HMRC seem to be more accomodating to the big boys.
One thing I didn't understand on the BBC R4 Today programme which had me "speaking sharply" to the radio this morning.
It was claimed that in these meetings with "big business," whatever that is, that HMRC were confronted with people who had very clever tax specialists and lawyers advising them, but that HMRC didn't have anyone (or maybe had very few people) who really understood tax legislation.
Excuse me? Run that past me again please.
Apologies for the off topic minor rant approaching but...
People working in HMRC and they do not have a deep understanding of tax legislation? Yet at the same time I'm expected to continue working until whenever so these clowns can preserve their pensions the like of which the rest of us can no longer afford.
Mods please note, I wanted to use a different word but chose clowns as that also began with the letter c.
It was claimed that in these meetings with "big business," whatever that is, that HMRC were confronted with people who had very clever tax specialists and lawyers advising them, but that HMRC didn't have anyone (or maybe had very few people) who really understood tax legislation.
Excuse me? Run that past me again please.
Apologies for the off topic minor rant approaching but...
People working in HMRC and they do not have a deep understanding of tax legislation? Yet at the same time I'm expected to continue working until whenever so these clowns can preserve their pensions the like of which the rest of us can no longer afford.
Mods please note, I wanted to use a different word but chose clowns as that also began with the letter c.
Deva Link said:
Puggit said:
Can someone please explain how HMRC management can get away with not appearing in front of the MPs, effectively their bosses. Who do they think they are?
They have appeared.Telegraph said:
HMRC officials summoned to appear before the committee refused to give details of deals agreed with large firms, including Vodafone and Goldman Sachs. Instead the committee had to rely on allegations from a whistle-blower, the HMRC lawyer Osita Mba.
In some of the most damning comments made by MPs against serving public officials, concerns are raised that “many millions of pounds may be lost to the public purse”.
Mrs Hodge said: “It is extremely disappointing that senior HMRC officials were not prepared to co-operate with our inquiry.
“It is absurd that we had to rely on the media and the actions of a whistle-blower to find out about the details of individual settlements.”
In some of the most damning comments made by MPs against serving public officials, concerns are raised that “many millions of pounds may be lost to the public purse”.
Mrs Hodge said: “It is extremely disappointing that senior HMRC officials were not prepared to co-operate with our inquiry.
“It is absurd that we had to rely on the media and the actions of a whistle-blower to find out about the details of individual settlements.”
F i F said:
One thing I didn't understand on the BBC R4 Today programme which had me "speaking sharply" to the radio this morning.
It was claimed that in these meetings with "big business," whatever that is, that HMRC were confronted with people who had very clever tax specialists and lawyers advising them, but that HMRC didn't have anyone (or maybe had very few people) who really understood tax legislation.
Excuse me? Run that past me again please.
Apologies for the off topic minor rant approaching but...
People working in HMRC and they do not have a deep understanding of tax legislation? Yet at the same time I'm expected to continue working until whenever so these clowns can preserve their pensions the like of which the rest of us can no longer afford.
Mods please note, I wanted to use a different word but chose clowns as that also began with the letter c.
It is essentially true. HMRC got rid of their sharpest people a number of years ago as a cost saving exercise. It is very difficult to talk to anyone at HMRC these days who really understands the tax system.It was claimed that in these meetings with "big business," whatever that is, that HMRC were confronted with people who had very clever tax specialists and lawyers advising them, but that HMRC didn't have anyone (or maybe had very few people) who really understood tax legislation.
Excuse me? Run that past me again please.
Apologies for the off topic minor rant approaching but...
People working in HMRC and they do not have a deep understanding of tax legislation? Yet at the same time I'm expected to continue working until whenever so these clowns can preserve their pensions the like of which the rest of us can no longer afford.
Mods please note, I wanted to use a different word but chose clowns as that also began with the letter c.
F i F said:
One thing I didn't understand on the BBC R4 Today programme which had me "speaking sharply" to the radio this morning.
It was claimed that in these meetings with "big business," whatever that is, that HMRC were confronted with people who had very clever tax specialists and lawyers advising them, but that HMRC didn't have anyone (or maybe had very few people) who really understood tax legislation.
Excuse me? Run that past me again please.
Yep - no surprise Goldmans said they didnt want to pay GBP 8m interest ... the HMRC "advice" that they couldn't collect this was incorrect [or HMRC didnt have good advice ... ]It was claimed that in these meetings with "big business," whatever that is, that HMRC were confronted with people who had very clever tax specialists and lawyers advising them, but that HMRC didn't have anyone (or maybe had very few people) who really understood tax legislation.
Excuse me? Run that past me again please.
so HMRC either dont get advice when they need it or get lousy advice .... reminds of my last role [FD ] .. we had a very large and expensive internal tax team who always said "tax experts need to be paid $$$$ ..it's a specialist skill "
... BUT would always engage with external and very expensive advisors on anything remotely tricky ... so why the hell employ an expensive internal team - when they always had to go outside !!??
Vodaphone's tax bill could have been up to £6billion. There is a quite a bit of gamekeeper turned poacher among the senior ranks of HMRC. Spend 15 to 20 years working up to a senior level at HMRC and then jump ship to the corporate world. HMRC staff often end up negotiating with their ex colleagues.
This is why the tax system needs simplifying.
The idea when Gideon got in was he was going to simplify this. It wouldn't be hard to simplify, as you would start from scratch rather than tweaking which is what has been done for decades. The problem is a tweak here is a loophole over there. Then there it means they have to write a new rule to cover the rule they just created. It gets silly.
The idea when Gideon got in was he was going to simplify this. It wouldn't be hard to simplify, as you would start from scratch rather than tweaking which is what has been done for decades. The problem is a tweak here is a loophole over there. Then there it means they have to write a new rule to cover the rule they just created. It gets silly.
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