Britain, one of the worst social mobility rates in the West
Discussion
"Britain has one of the worst social mobility rates in the West with the life chances of children fixed by the time they are three.
An all-party parliamentary group report has highlighted research showing that half of all children born here will share the economic and educational prospects of their parents compared with only 15 per cent in Denmark.
A study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development found the 50 per cent indicator of low social mobility in Britain was worse than in Italy where 48 per cent of children share their parents’ prospects, the US (47 per cent), France (41 per cent) and Australia (17 per cent)."
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/uk/british-chil... or
The Wail version for those that like that sort of thing
Keeps the Chavs down.
An all-party parliamentary group report has highlighted research showing that half of all children born here will share the economic and educational prospects of their parents compared with only 15 per cent in Denmark.
A study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development found the 50 per cent indicator of low social mobility in Britain was worse than in Italy where 48 per cent of children share their parents’ prospects, the US (47 per cent), France (41 per cent) and Australia (17 per cent)."
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/uk/british-chil... or
The Wail version for those that like that sort of thing
Keeps the Chavs down.
Eric Mc said:
If you have ambition, tuition fees become a relatively unimportant issue.
And don't assume that the only way to progress in life is through obtaining a university degree.
I was going to add that a degree is not the only way forwards. There seems to be a rather depressing attitude that the only way to get ahead is through working for someone else and climbing the corporate pole. And don't assume that the only way to progress in life is through obtaining a university degree.
Eric Mc said:
If you have ambition, tuition fees become a relatively unimportant issue.
And don't assume that the only way to progress in life is through obtaining a university degree.
Where does ambition come from?And don't assume that the only way to progress in life is through obtaining a university degree.
Most ambition comes from parents and peers and role models. If you're born into a family and your parents don't give a toss and have friends who are no hopers, you have very little chance of 'doing well' later on economically speaking anyway.
Sure, some people do well wherever they grow up or go to school but in the UK there is such a huge divide in the quality of education and opportunity that there is much less chance to improve your lot than there is in other countries.
Why is it worse here than in other European countries? It's because we have bigger disparity in earnings and poorer quality education and social services. Go to Sweden or Norway and people wouldn't dream of paying for private schooling or BUPA. In the UK the large disparity in earnings leads to increase social decay and increase in teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, alcoholism and general unhealthiness. and worst of all a dependancy on benefits.
In the UK, poor kids in poor areas with crap parents go to crap schools with nobody to aspire to be like except people they see on the telly. Then they pass on their low aspirations and world view to their own children.
To quote the great Philip Larkin:
They f
k you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
They f
k you up, your mum and dad.They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were f
ked up in their turnBy fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
Fittster said:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/uk/british-chil... or
The Wail version for those that like that sort of thing
You know that the Daily Mail part owns the Standard?The Wail version for those that like that sort of thing
TwigtheWonderkid said:
To quote the great Philip Larkin:
They fk you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
What a complete load of crap, and all to well sums up the lazy feckless who are all to quick to blame others. There are plenty of examples of those who have come from nothing to be someone, and those who have had it all and lost it through there own actions/inactions. They f
k you up, your mum and dad.They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were f
ked up in their turnBy fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
Social Mobility is the current buzz word, to avoid admitting that we have created 2or 3 generations who simply believe everything is their human right, and being told to earn it is just no fair.
el stovey said:
Eric Mc said:
If you have ambition, tuition fees become a relatively unimportant issue.
And don't assume that the only way to progress in life is through obtaining a university degree.
Where does ambition come from?And don't assume that the only way to progress in life is through obtaining a university degree.
Most ambition comes from parents and peers and role models. If you're born into a family and your parents don't give a toss and have friends who are no hopers, you have very little chance of 'doing well' later on economically speaking anyway.
Sure, some people do well wherever they grow up or go to school but in the UK there is such a huge divide in the quality of education and opportunity that there is much less chance to improve your lot than there is in other countries.
Why is it worse here than in other European countries? It's because we have bigger disparity in earnings and poorer quality education and social services. Go to Sweden or Norway and people wouldn't dream of paying for private schooling or BUPA. In the UK the large disparity in earnings leads to increase social decay and increase in teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, alcoholism and general unhealthiness. and worst of all a dependancy on benefits.
In the UK, poor kids in poor areas with crap parents go to crap schools with nobody to aspire to be like except people they see on the telly. Then they pass on their low aspirations and world view to their own children.
KrazyIvan said:
What a complete load of crap, and all to well sums up the lazy feckless who are all to quick to blame others. There are plenty of examples of those who have come from nothing to be someone, and those who have had it all and lost it through there own actions/inactions.
Social Mobility is the current buzz word, to avoid admitting that we have created 2or 3 generations who simply believe everything is their human right, and being told to earn it is just no fair.
OK. But how do you explain the example given of Denmark? Is there something in the water? Because if there isn't, then it has to be about the way we as a society bring children up (which includes but isn't limited to parents).Social Mobility is the current buzz word, to avoid admitting that we have created 2or 3 generations who simply believe everything is their human right, and being told to earn it is just no fair.
KrazyIvan said:
What a complete load of crap, and all to well sums up the lazy feckless who are all to quick to blame others. There are plenty of examples of those who have come from nothing to be someone, and those who have had it all and lost it through there own actions/inactions.
Unfortunately, they're in the tiny minority, social mobility in the UK is amongst the worst in the west, there's little doubt about it. Ignoring it is why we now have generations of people living on benefits and having no qualifications, ambitions, and having their own children at 15 who will most likely not do any better than they did.
MX7 said:
Fittster said:
You know that the Daily Mail part owns the Standard?Eric Mc said:
Ambition comes from atitude. A poor atitude comes from poverty. Not poverty of money, but popverty of spirit and poverty of hope. That mainly comes from within.
No, for most people those attitudes are taught to you by your parents or role models. If you are lucky enough to be born into a family with good parents with good jobs or friends with parents with good jobs etc, you grow up thinking things are possible that you might not if you grow up where everyone is unemployed. Your scope for what is possible is much wider. You most likely live in nicer areas and go to better schools with more motivated teachers and at home your parents are more encouraging and helpful and constantly reinforcing ethics about behaviour and work and health etc.
As I said some people will do OK where ever they are born but the majority are simply end up a product of their upbringing and social situation.
Edited by el stovey on Wednesday 2nd May 11:30
"It cites evidence which shows the richest 20 per of children are twice as likely to be read to every day at the age of three as the poorest 20 per cent."
At 3? So it's nothing to do with state education, it's about the parents.
I have a friend who taught her daughter to read before she went to school. I have another friend, and I was shocked when he said that he wasn't going to bother to teach them to read. Now, 5 years later, both children are exceptionally good readers. In some Scandinavian countries school doesn't start until children are 7 years old, so I'm not convinced that that's a good indicator to use.
At 3? So it's nothing to do with state education, it's about the parents.
I have a friend who taught her daughter to read before she went to school. I have another friend, and I was shocked when he said that he wasn't going to bother to teach them to read. Now, 5 years later, both children are exceptionally good readers. In some Scandinavian countries school doesn't start until children are 7 years old, so I'm not convinced that that's a good indicator to use.
Fittster said:
MX7 said:
Fittster said:
You know that the Daily Mail part owns the Standard?I had someone round yesterday to do my gardening. A nice clean estate car pulls up exactly on time, smartly dressed man in his early 20s, incredibly polite, and within an hour he had completely finished my garden - i was expecting it to take all morning. He didn't charge alot for the hour either. He was Polish. That's the difference between him and the feckless youth whole live near me (who have just as much opportunities and financial backing) but 'can't get a job' yet have a car and nice home to go back to.
el stovey said:
Eric Mc said:
Ambition comes from atitude. A poor atitude comes from poverty. Not poverty of money, but popverty of spirit and poverty of hope. That mainly comes from within.
No, for most people those attitudes are taught to you by your parents or role models. 
There can and are exceptions where an individual will break away from the cycle of lack of ambition - but it is quite rare.
fido said:
I had someone round yesterday to do my gardening. A nice clean estate car pulls up exactly on time, smartly dressed man in his early 20s, incredibly polite, and within an hour he had completely finished my garden - i was expecting it to take all morning. He didn't charge alot for the hour either. He was Polish. That's the difference between him and the feckless youth whole live near me (who have just as much opportunities and financial backing) but 'can't get a job' yet have a car and nice home to go back to.
You paid him?Where I live the Poles pay me to do my gardening. Then, if I'm feeling generous I let them clean my windows and wash my car. I'm nice like that.
Chav-scum English don't know they're born.
supersingle said:
Chav-scum English don't know they're born.
That's the problem. I don't live on a council estate. I live in a relatively affluent part of London (albeit with a slightly higher than average ASBO crime). It's about the difference in attitude between those than want-to-do and those who need their mum to drag them to a job interview.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff