Drayton Wiser heating app question

[Toilet Duck]

Morning all,

I've fitted a Drayton Wiser room stat with smart TRV's on the radiators, all working ok.

What I don't understand is the relationship in the app settings between overall temperature (on the "main" wireless stat) compared to the individual temp settings on the radiator smart TRV's.

If all radiator TRV'S are set to 20 degrees and are up to temp, if I set one TRV to 21 degrees the boiler fires up and the central heating pump runs until that room reaches 21 degrees, all good.

If all TRV's are set to 20 degrees and I set the main "house" wireless stat to 22 degrees, should that overide the TRV settings (20 degrees) so that the radiators can pump out more heat, otherwise surely it would be impossible to raise the "home" stat temperature reading past the lower TRV setting?

Conversely, the main "home" wireless stat is currently set at 19 degrees but indicating an actual temp of 14 degrees, yet the heating doesn't come on. That doesn't sound right? The only way I get the heating on is to set the radiator TRV's temp above the indicated room temp that the TRV "sees".

I'm probably doing something stupid but I don't know what!

Any help much appreciated! :-)

[rxe]

Just think of the thermostat as a TRV without a radiator. It is simply another data point that can demand heat, especially in a room with no TRVs.

My set up has TRVs on every rad in the house, other than the dining room/kitchen which has standard valves. All of the rooms with TRVs can demand heat, which also heats the dining room. There is a chance that the dining room gets over heated, but given the way the house works, this doesn’t actually happen. The thermostat is in the dining room, and demand heat even if all of the TRVs elsewhere are off.

[rfsteel]

I have a TRV in the Living Room and main stat is the bedroom, with both rooms on the same schedule and target temps, with Eco and Comfort modes set in the app and I find that once the target temp is reached either by the stat or TRV, then I find this leads how the boiler fires.

What it doesn't do is shut down the TRV to enable the bedroom to reach the target temp, though think this might be caused by using Eco mode.

[AW10]

Have you linked the thermostat to a specific room?

[Toilet Duck]

AW10 said:

Have you linked the thermostat to a specific room?

No

Am I supposed to, and if so how do I do this? What room do I link it to?

Does the thermostat "overide" whatever the individual smart TRV's are set to?

Cheers

[mrpbailey]

My understanding is that the ‘wall’ thermostat should not and does not override the radiator thermostats.
You may know this already but the room where your ‘wall’ thermostat is should not have radiators with smart thermostats fitted

[Toilet Duck]

mrpbailey said:

My understanding is that the ‘wall’ thermostat should not and does not override the radiator thermostats.
You may know this already but the room where your ‘wall’ thermostat is should not have radiators with smart thermostats fitted

No, I didn't know it shouldn't be positioned in a room with rads with smart TRV's!

If it doesn't overide the radiator TRV's, I don't get what it's purpose is. If you set the temp of the "wall" thermostat higher than the temp settings on the smart TRV's then it sounds like nothing will happen. Surely it's pointless?

With "dumb" system if you want the house temp raised you just turn the wall stat up a degree or two , the boiler fires up and the rads kick out heat until the stat reaches its set to then switches the boiler off.

I must be being thick but I don't get the point of the main stat with this Wiser smart system?

[juggsy]

Toilet Duck said:

mrpbailey said:

My understanding is that the ‘wall’ thermostat should not and does not override the radiator thermostats.
You may know this already but the room where your ‘wall’ thermostat is should not have radiators with smart thermostats fitted

No, I didn't know it shouldn't be positioned in a room with rads with smart TRV's!

If it doesn't overide the radiator TRV's, I don't get what it's purpose is. If you set the temp of the "wall" thermostat higher than the temp settings on the smart TRV's then it sounds like nothing will happen. Surely it's pointless?

With "dumb" system if you want the house temp raised you just turn the wall stat up a degree or two , the boiler fires up and the rads kick out heat until the stat reaches its set to then switches the boiler off.

I must be being thick but I don't get the point of the main stat with this Wiser smart system?

You absolutely can use the wall stat in rooms with TRVs.

The TRVs main function is to create zones in the house so that individual rooms can be controlled, but because they are right on top of the heat source, they have to use algorithms to determine an approximate temp of a room. In my experience with a whole home setup they are not all that accurate, and can vary by a few degrees in terms of actual room temp (compared to when using a thermometer and the wiser wall stat).

The wall stat is far more accurate. I’ve got 2 in key locations in the house to manage the temp for main living areas, which means it is the wall stat that tells the TRVs when to open/close/call for heat. Then in bedrooms the TRV temp is used for those rooms.

Also, a wall stat is more convenient to do a quick temp change in a main area without having to get your phone out. If it wasn’t for cost, I’d have a wall stat in every room.

[Happy Jim]

Each of my rooms that has a wiser TRV is a “zone’ , in one of the rooms the rad is buried under a desk so I’ve put the thermostat in that room and “added” it to that specific zone - Wiser now uses the thermostat to control the TRV.

You could add the thermostat to more than 1 zone, but that would take away some of the point if it!. If you have a room with more than 1 Rad/TRV and assign the thermostat to that room it will control both/all rads.

Cheers
Jim

[AW10]

juggsy said:

You absolutely can use the wall stat in rooms with TRVs.

The TRVs main function is to create zones in the house so that individual rooms can be controlled, but because they are right on top of the heat source, they have to use algorithms to determine an approximate temp of a room. In my experience with a whole home setup they are not all that accurate, and can vary by a few degrees in terms of actual room temp (compared to when using a thermometer and the wiser wall stat).

The wall stat is far more accurate. I’ve got 2 in key locations in the house to manage the temp for main living areas, which means it is the wall stat that tells the TRVs when to open/close/call for heat. Then in bedrooms the TRV temp is used for those rooms.

Also, a wall stat is more convenient to do a quick temp change in a main area without having to get your phone out. If it wasn’t for cost, I’d have a wall stat in every room.

The above is exactly what I do in larger rooms that have multiple rads.

Back to the OPs question... it's not clear if you've "told" the hub that the thermostat exists. Link it to a room or house area without Wiser TRVs and it will act just like an old standard wired themostat:
- when it measures the temperature as below the set temp it will call for heat and the boiler will run until that room is heated to the set temp
- the rooms with Wiser TRVs should not be affected - they can still call for heat independent of that thermostat
- however, a TRV's call for heat takes precedence over a thermostat. so if by setting a TRV to 20 degrees and a thermostat in a non-TRV area to 14 degrees that area may get to over 14 degrees before the TRV gets to 20

[Toilet Duck]

Thanks for all the replies gents

AW10 said:

Back to the OPs question... it's not clear if you've "told" the hub that the thermostat exists. Link it to a room or house area without Wiser TRVs and it will act just like an old standard wired themostat:
- when it measures the temperature as below the set temp it will call for heat and the boiler will run until that room is heated to the set temp
- the rooms with Wiser TRVs should not be affected - they can still call for heat independent of that thermostat
- however, a TRV's call for heat takes precedence over a thermostat. so if by setting a TRV to 20 degrees and a thermostat in a non-TRV area to 14 degrees that area may get to over 14 degrees before the TRV gets to 20

I'm not sure how I "tell" the hub that the thermostat exists. When I look in the Wiser app on my phone or tablet, I can see the thermostat which its current temp set point and actual temp it's detecting. Do I need to do something else?

I replaced all radiators in the house before adding wiser smart TRV's to ALL of them with the exception of the "wild" rad in a bathroom.

Currently I am setting the temperature of the house by adjusting each room smart TRV up or down. Some rooms (that aren't being used) have the temp of the smart TRV set to 14 so they are effectively "off" all the time. It just seems a bit of a faff having to keep adjusting (via the Wiser app) each room radiator smart TRV.

I am not using the wireless Wiser thermostat at all

[Happy Jim]

Go into Settings,
Select Devices,
Select “Room Thermostats”
Select Location
Pick which room you have it in (it will then control that rooms Wiser TRV’s)

Regards

Jim

[AW10]

Toilet Duck said:

Currently I am setting the temperature of the house by adjusting each room smart TRV up or down. Some rooms (that aren't being used) have the temp of the smart TRV set to 14 so they are effectively "off" all the time. It just seems a bit of a faff having to keep adjusting (via the Wiser app) each room radiator smart TRV.

You can set individual schedules for each room; have you done that?

[Toilet Duck]

Happy Jim said:

Go into Settings,
Select Devices,
Select “Room Thermostats”
Select Location
Pick which room you have it in (it will then control that rooms Wiser TRV’s)

Regards

Jim

Jim, you are my new hero

Just had a look, my thermostat is currently "unallocated". It looks as if I can only allocate it to one smart TRV so effectively one room. Does this mean the thermostat can only control one TRV, or can you allocate multiple TRV'S /rooms to it? I don't seem to be able to add more than one. If this is the case, then I think my expectations were wrong as I thought I could just turn the thermostat up if I wanted ALL radiators to come on?

Many thanks for posting those instructions, I wish my kit came with an idiot guide!

[Toilet Duck]

AW10 said:

You can set individual schedules for each room; have you done that?

No

I'm a luddite with this sort of stuff. I'm literally opening the app each time I want to turn the temp up/down on a radiator and manually making the adjustment.

Is there some sort of online idiot guide anywhere, something that treats you like a child in explaining how this fking thing works?

[AW10]

I don't mean to sound like a d*ck but it's not clear why you've bought the system if technology isn't your thing.

A thermostat needs to be linked to a room; you can't just have it "floating".

Through the app you can "boost all" to heat each room for x degrees for y minutes or you can create "moments" to control multiple devices such as all bedrooms or the kitchen and the lounge or whatever combination you chose. Look under automation.

Have you watched Drayton Wiser's video on youtube?

https://youtu.be/S1oe8pntuGQ
https://youtu.be/glfDM1lr2Qw

[Toilet Duck]

AW10 said:

I don't mean to sound like a d*ck but it's not clear why you've bought the system if technology isn't your thing.

A thermostat needs to be linked to a room; you can't just have it "floating".

Through the app you can "boost all" to heat each room for x degrees for y minutes or you can create "moments" to control multiple devices such as all bedrooms or the kitchen and the lounge or whatever combination you chose. Look under automation.

Have you watched Drayton Wiser's video on youtube?

https://youtu.be/S1oe8pntuGQ
https://youtu.be/glfDM1lr2Qw

Fair comment, you're not being a dick

I bought the system for a (larger) house I've moved into. Other half works from home most of the time, so I thought a "smart" heating system would save on energy bills as it's much easier to control individual room heating rather than heating the whole house when just the "office" room is being used. I do like the new setup, being able to adjust individual room temps from a phone or tablet is super convenient. I suppose the thermostat issue derives from the fact I'm only used to "dumb" heating systems where you turn the temp up and all the rads come on until the set point is reached.

I did work out the "boost" function (only took me about a month ). I will look at the automation section like you suggested. I will also watch the vids you linked.

Many thanks

[Fore Left]

mrpbailey said:

My understanding is that the ‘wall’ thermostat should not and does not override the radiator thermostats.
You may know this already but the room where your ‘wall’ thermostat is should not have radiators with smart thermostats fitted

No idea if it's recommended or not but you can. It helps balance a big room with a single radiator. I've done it in the kitchen. Put the wall thermostat furthest from the radiator where it never seemed to get sufficiently warm and it averages the two meaning that overall room reaches the set temperature. Oddly, it isn't significantly warmer by the radiator just better balanced.

Edited by Fore Left on Saturday 27th November 20:36

[mrpbailey]

Fore Left said:

No idea if it's recommended or not but you can. It helps balance a big room with a single radiator. I've done it in the kitchen. Put the wall thermostat furthest from the radiator where it never seemed to get sufficiently warm and it averages the two meaning that overall room reaches the set temperature. Oddly, it isn't significantly warmer by the radiator just better balanced.

From most of the comments above it looks like I am wrong about that! I’m sure I read it somewhere though!

My system is setup with the wall stat in the living room (where the original stat was). 3 x rads in this room with just standard TRV’s. I then have wiser smart TRV’s on all other rads in the house, set up in different zones (bedrooms/kitchen/landing etc). All programmed individually when to come on, so rooms only heated when they are most likely in use.
It works for us that when another room hears the living room is also heated, being as it’s the room we spend most our time in. If I had smart TRV’s on my living room rads then I don’t see what benefit I’d get from having the wall stat in that room too?

I can understand the reasoning from the poster above, large room with only 1 x rad. I guess different setups work in different houses!

Edited by mrpbailey on Saturday 27th November 20:55

[juggsy]

Toilet Duck said:

Jim, you are my new hero

Just had a look, my thermostat is currently "unallocated". It looks as if I can only allocate it to one smart TRV so effectively one room. Does this mean the thermostat can only control one TRV, or can you allocate multiple TRV'S /rooms to it? I don't seem to be able to add more than one. If this is the case, then I think my expectations were wrong as I thought I could just turn the thermostat up if I wanted ALL radiators to come on?

Many thanks for posting those instructions, I wish my kit came with an idiot guide!

It’s better to think about it in rooms rather than TRVs. For example, we have a garden room which has 2 rads with wiser TRVs and a room stat. Both TRVs and the room stat are allocated to garden room, which means the room stat is the primary sensor to call for heat, and when below temp both TRVs on the rads will open.

We also have our master bed with 2 TRVs both allocated to that room. In this case as we don’t have a room stat in this room, an average of the temp from both TRVs are taken to determine room temp and whether to call for heat.

In any case, having your rooms setup and devices allocated to each room is key to success