Towing on an A road, how likely am I to get a ban?

[LotsOfLaughs]

Hi guys, just drove past a camera van and it made me wonder.
I was towing a small empty trailer on a 3 lane A road (1 lane each way with a passing lane) its normally a 60 zone, but of course with a trailer its 50.
So my question is, do they need a picture of the trailer in the speeding image to prove I was towing,and hence for the reduced limit to apply?
I also checked, if one were doing 75 in a 60, its a band A ticket (3 points + fine, or speed awareness course). If its 76 in a 50, its a band C ticket (6 points + bigger fine, or driving ban up to 8 weeks).
I passed my test just under 3 years ago, Im 20, and I absolutely need to drive to get to work (public transport is non existant and its too far and too steep to cycle). Im not worried about the fine, thatll hurt but life goes on. If I get points or a ban, then I probably wont be able to insure a car for many many years to come, which at this age it feels like it could litterally ruin my life. If its relevant, Ive never had an accident, a point or anything of the sort before.
If one did get a ticket, what are my chances of beating it by claiming that the trailer had started to swing, so I sped up instinctively to correct the swing? Is that a valid and reasonable excuse? Its sort of true.
Thanks for any input, will definately slow down in the future (not that I drive particularly quickly anyway)

[Somewhatfoolish]

You haven't said how fast you were going

[CraigyMc]

Somewhatfoolish said:

You haven't said how fast you were going

Also matters which country this happened in. Scotland's not the same as the rest of the UK.

[Bill]

I suspect it depends how switched on the camera operator was and how many other people were also speeding. If it was busy there's a good chance they were focused on the next victims and you're more likely to get away with it.

[GreatGranny]

I got caught for speeding (57 in a 60) towing my caravan maybe 8 years ago.

It was a mobile speed camera hence manned.

I was in a line of traffic all doing indicated 60, I saw the van but it just didn't register I was doing nearly 10 mph over the limit

I went for a SAC.

However if it was a fixed camera (I'm presuming) there would be no way it could distinguish between a car with trailer and car without trailer.

[LotsOfLaughs]

CraigyMc said:

Somewhatfoolish said:

You haven't said how fast you were going

Also matters which country this happened in. Scotland's not the same as the rest of the UK.

Wales, and it was a van.

Also, out if interest, has anyone ever used the following argument? (Not that Im going to)
"Why is speeding an offence?"
"Because its dangerous"
"So why am I being charged and prosecuted for speeding, not dangerous driving?"
Or is that a sure-fire way of getting done fir dangerour driving?

Not that I want to go off topic

Edited by LotsOfLaughs on Monday 25th September 14:28

[Mammasaid]

[Muzzer79]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Hi guys, just drove past a camera van and it made me wonder.
I was towing a small empty trailer on a 3 lane A road (1 lane each way with a passing lane) its normally a 60 zone, but of course with a trailer its 50.
So my question is, do they need a picture of the trailer in the speeding image to prove I was towing,and hence for the reduced limit to apply?
I also checked, if one were doing 75 in a 60, its a band A ticket (3 points + fine, or speed awareness course). If its 76 in a 50, its a band C ticket (6 points + bigger fine, or driving ban up to 8 weeks).
I passed my test just under 3 years ago, Im 20, and I absolutely need to drive to get to work (public transport is non existant and its too far and too steep to cycle). Im not worried about the fine, thatll hurt but life goes on. If I get points or a ban, then I probably wont be able to insure a car for many many years to come, which at this age it feels like it could litterally ruin my life. If its relevant, Ive never had an accident, a point or anything of the sort before.

Thanks for any input, will definately slow down in the future (not that I drive particularly quickly anyway)

They would need a picture of the trailer to prosecute you via a mobile camera van, but I can't see how they wouldn't have that picture?

I assume you were doing circa 75mph, from your post.

LotsOfLaughs said:

If one did get a ticket, what are my chances of beating it by claiming that the trailer had started to swing, so I sped up instinctively to correct the swing? Is that a valid and reasonable excuse? Its sort of true.

"Sort of true"

Bending the truth is not a very firm foundation to build a case on.

In any case, if you were doing 75mph, it would be a stretch (I would say) to claim that for safety reasons you had no choice but to drive up to 50% above the speed limit to correct trailer swing.
In fact, this could go against you - perhaps if you weren't going so fast, the trailer wouldn't have started to swing......

[MrTrilby]

LotsOfLaughs said:

If one did get a ticket, what are my chances of beating it by claiming that the trailer had started to swing, so I sped up instinctively to correct the swing? Is that a valid and reasonable excuse? Its sort of true.

I’m not convinced that claiming you were not in full control of your vehicle is the best way to avoid a motoring prosecution.

At the risk of being accused of being sanctimonious, if you can’t afford to run the risk of gaining points, there’s a really easy solution to avoiding them…

[Muzzer79]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Also, out if interest, has anyone ever used the following argument? (Not that Im going to)
"Why is speeding an offence?"
"Because its dangerous"
"So why am I being charged and prosecuted for speeding, not dangerous driving?"
Or is that a sure-fire way of getting done fir dangerour driving?

Not that I want to go off topic

Perhaps because that's like beating someone up and saying

"Why is GBH an offence?"
"Because you could kill someone"
"So why aren't I being charged for attempted murder?"

[super7]

Not sure if this is actually a restriction...

Have you taken the additional test for towing?

[CraigyMc]

LotsOfLaughs said:

CraigyMc said:

Somewhatfoolish said:

You haven't said how fast you were going

Also matters which country this happened in. Scotland's not the same as the rest of the UK.

Wales, and it was a van.

Also, out if interest, has anyone ever used the following argument? (Not that Im going to)
"Why is speeding an offence?"
"Because its dangerous"
"So why am I being charged and prosecuted for speeding, not dangerous driving?"
Or is that a sure-fire way of getting done fir dangerour driving?

Not that I want to go off topic

Edited by LotsOfLaughs on Monday 25th September 14:28

For a speeding conviction to be valid, there are only two requirements:

• Appropriate speed limit notification (through speed limit signs or presence of streetlights)
• Evidence that the speed limit was broken

[s p a c e m a n]

I'm just here to point out that camera vans have cameras recording on the front too otherwise motorbikes would be exempt

[LotsOfLaughs]

Muzzer79 said:

LotsOfLaughs said:

Hi guys, just drove past a camera van and it made me wonder.
I was towing a small empty trailer on a 3 lane A road (1 lane each way with a passing lane) its normally a 60 zone, but of course with a trailer its 50.
So my question is, do they need a picture of the trailer in the speeding image to prove I was towing,and hence for the reduced limit to apply?
I also checked, if one were doing 75 in a 60, its a band A ticket (3 points + fine, or speed awareness course). If its 76 in a 50, its a band C ticket (6 points + bigger fine, or driving ban up to 8 weeks).
I passed my test just under 3 years ago, Im 20, and I absolutely need to drive to get to work (public transport is non existant and its too far and too steep to cycle). Im not worried about the fine, thatll hurt but life goes on. If I get points or a ban, then I probably wont be able to insure a car for many many years to come, which at this age it feels like it could litterally ruin my life. If its relevant, Ive never had an accident, a point or anything of the sort before.

Thanks for any input, will definately slow down in the future (not that I drive particularly quickly anyway)

They would need a picture of the trailer to prosecute you via a mobile camera van, but I can't see how they wouldn't have that picture?

I assume you were doing circa 75mph, from your post.

LotsOfLaughs said:

If one did get a ticket, what are my chances of beating it by claiming that the trailer had started to swing, so I sped up instinctively to correct the swing? Is that a valid and reasonable excuse? Its sort of true.

"Sort of true"

Bending the truth is not a very firm foundation to build a case on.

In any case, if you were doing 75mph, it would be a stretch (I would say) to claim that for safety reasons you had no choice but to drive up to 50% above the speed limit to correct trailer swing.
In fact, this could go against you - perhaps if you weren't going so fast, the trailer wouldn't have started to swing......

Thanks, and thinking about the aerodynamics of the trailer and the fact that its unloaded, speeding up would probably make it worse in this example, hence saying its an instinctive reaction.
Ive not measured, but 49mph to the top end of third (which in my car is about 80mph) wouldnt take very long at all. Im quite sure I wasnt in 3rd however, so its not really relevant, because I wasnt in 3rd
For example, because its a circe 1600kg car (plus driver plus fuel its more like 1800kg) with ample power, and the unladen trailer is probably 200-250kg, lets say one forgot it was there and was doing 59mph, then a crosswind caused it to swing and they instinctively sped up a bit (lets say, 17mph, to 76, in this hypothetical example) and then voila, speed camera van right there.
The only reason I ask about the trailer needing to be in the picture it that the camera end of the van was pointed at the front of the car, so the trailer might not have been visible in the picture (not sure the trailer is only 4 feet wide and about the same height as the car). Obviously if the van has a forward facing dashcam itll have seen me with a trailer, Im just wondering if its got to be in the pictures that prove one was going too quickly.
Obviolusly for the relevancy of the post its all hypothetical, I wasnt speeding etc etc, seeing the van made me wonder. In this hypothetical situation the car might not have been exceeding 50 by the time the camera could see the car.

[LotsOfLaughs]

super7 said:

Not sure if this is actually a restriction...

Have you taken the additional test for towing?

No, its not required any more (up to 3500kg+3500kg)
And the trailer was an unbraked one with a mass under 750kg (a long way under, in this example)

[Dingu]

I think it’s fair to say you won’t avoid hypothetical speeding penalties by trying to claim some elaborate form of control issue.

Edited by Dingu on Monday 25th September 15:00

[CraigyMc]

Dingu said:

You think it’s fair to say you won’t avoid hypothetical speeding penalties by trying to claim some elaborate form of control issue.

"I couldn't slow down due to the trailer that wasn't rated for 80mph"

[LotsOfLaughs]

Alright then, thanks guys for all your input, I guess Ill wait and see what comes through the post.

[BertBert]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Thanks, and thinking about the aerodynamics of the trailer and the fact that its unloaded, speeding up would probably make it worse in this example, hence saying its an instinctive reaction.
Ive not measured, but 49mph to the top end of third (which in my car is about 80mph) wouldnt take very long at all. Im quite sure I wasnt in 3rd however, so its not really relevant, because I wasnt in 3rd
For example, because its a circe 1600kg car (plus driver plus fuel its more like 1800kg) with ample power, and the unladen trailer is probably 200-250kg, lets say one forgot it was there and was doing 59mph, then a crosswind caused it to swing and they instinctively sped up a bit (lets say, 17mph, to 76, in this hypothetical example) and then voila, speed camera van right there.
The only reason I ask about the trailer needing to be in the picture it that the camera end of the van was pointed at the front of the car, so the trailer might not have been visible in the picture (not sure the trailer is only 4 feet wide and about the same height as the car). Obviously if the van has a forward facing dashcam itll have seen me with a trailer, Im just wondering if its got to be in the pictures that prove one was going too quickly.
Obviolusly for the relevancy of the post its all hypothetical, I wasnt speeding etc etc, seeing the van made me wonder. In this hypothetical situation the car might not have been exceeding 50 by the time the camera could see the car.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you really asking about the consequences of someone doing 76mph, past a camera van towing a trailer on an NSL A road?
And any mitigation of had to speed up because the trailer was swinging would be very unwise.

[Griffith4ever]

If it helps, OP, I drove past a camera van in my work van at 70 on the A303 and didn't get a ticket.

Also I very much doubt automatic cameras have AI for detecting trailers and vans yet and flashing at 10mph lower just for us.