High-speed rail link - London to Birmingham
Discussion
Just watching BBC news, and some people opposing the plan were interviewed.
One lady in particular, gesturing toward her children said: these are the ones that are going to suffer!
However, my questions are this; just what is going to make the children suffer?
Why are so many people opposed to progress?
Surely we need these transport links - after all new roads appear to be off the agenda in 21st century England, so how else are we supposed to get around?
I am neither for nor against this plan, as I have no idea of any potential negative ramifications.
I'm just trying to understand the arguments being put forth against it.
One lady in particular, gesturing toward her children said: these are the ones that are going to suffer!
However, my questions are this; just what is going to make the children suffer?
Why are so many people opposed to progress?
Surely we need these transport links - after all new roads appear to be off the agenda in 21st century England, so how else are we supposed to get around?
I am neither for nor against this plan, as I have no idea of any potential negative ramifications.
I'm just trying to understand the arguments being put forth against it.
HS2 is going to be there to free up capacity on other lines I would have thought.
Don't discount the fact that Network Rail will probably be looking to sell it off when its gets up and running.
A lot of bridges are getting altered now but its the tunnels that are the tricky bit where you have to see if you can lower the track, then you are having to deal with gradient changes and all sorts.
Don't discount the fact that Network Rail will probably be looking to sell it off when its gets up and running.
A lot of bridges are getting altered now but its the tunnels that are the tricky bit where you have to see if you can lower the track, then you are having to deal with gradient changes and all sorts.
TonyRPH said:
Just watching BBC news, and some people opposing the plan were interviewed.
One lady in particular, gesturing toward her children said: these are the ones that are going to suffer!
However, my questions are this; just what is going to make the children suffer?
They'll suffer because she'll poke their eyes out with her madly gesturing finger..... she scared me One lady in particular, gesturing toward her children said: these are the ones that are going to suffer!
However, my questions are this; just what is going to make the children suffer?
Pesty said:
TonyRPH said:
just what is going to make the children suffer?
Is a train going to be going past the end of her garden every 5 mintues?I could be wrong however, as I only caught snippets of the full report.
I find it somewhat odd that some people regard trains / railway lines a scar on the countryside, however harking back to the 'golden age' of steam, nobody seemed to mind much then?
Or perhaps I'm too young to remember if there were any protests in those days?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's not pointless - the existing West Coast Mainline and Chiltern line are already near capacity and despite the planned upgrades they will be at their increased capacity 4-5 years before HS2 comes onstream. With that background, I don't see how rail freight could be increased significantly on the existing lines; of course, it can once HS2 takes the majority of inter-city passenger traffic.Having watched the BBC news segment, I was amused that there was a busy road clearly in view through the middle of the valley behind the presenter (the A413 I assume). A railway line will not desecrate the countryside badly. Relying on historic lines and Victorian route planning will keep communications in the dark ages, though.
I must admit that I have not been taking as much notice of this as perhaps I should have. Living in Wiltshire, its going to make sod all differeence to me!
However, prompted by this thread I went to the HS2 website tonight and had a look at the proposed route.
Oh for f
ks sake!!!!! 
I had naively thought that the obvious route for much of the line was up the trackbed of the old Great Central railway that was closed in 1966. Marylebone-Amersham-Aylesbury-Brackley-Woodford Halse-Rugby, then dream up a new route to go west to Brum, plus a bit of new line from St Pancras to join up with the GC - perhaps up to Kentish Town, upgrade the North London line towards the west, then pick it up in the Neasden/ Harrow area.
OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed). Not only that, but there could be the ultimate put down to the objectors - "look chum, there used to be a railway here and all we're intending to do is put it back." Re-using part of the old GC would therefore be by far the cheapest and least contentious (or at worst most easilty defended) option,
Instead of that, I see that some dim witted arsewipe, or committee of dim-witted arsewipes, have decide to try to send this line through virgin country.
Whitehall at its finest?
Sir Humphrey still lives
However, prompted by this thread I went to the HS2 website tonight and had a look at the proposed route.
Oh for f
ks sake!!!!! I had naively thought that the obvious route for much of the line was up the trackbed of the old Great Central railway that was closed in 1966. Marylebone-Amersham-Aylesbury-Brackley-Woodford Halse-Rugby, then dream up a new route to go west to Brum, plus a bit of new line from St Pancras to join up with the GC - perhaps up to Kentish Town, upgrade the North London line towards the west, then pick it up in the Neasden/ Harrow area.
OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed). Not only that, but there could be the ultimate put down to the objectors - "look chum, there used to be a railway here and all we're intending to do is put it back." Re-using part of the old GC would therefore be by far the cheapest and least contentious (or at worst most easilty defended) option,
Instead of that, I see that some dim witted arsewipe, or committee of dim-witted arsewipes, have decide to try to send this line through virgin country.
Whitehall at its finest?
Sir Humphrey still lives
rs1952 said:
I had naively thought that the obvious route for much of the line was up the trackbed of the old Great Central railway that was closed in 1966. Marylebone-Amersham-Aylesbury-Brackley-Woodford Halse-Rugby, then dream up a new route to go west to Brum, plus a bit of new line from St Pancras to join up with the GC - perhaps up to Kentish Town, upgrade the North London line towards the west, then pick it up in the Neasden/ Harrow area.
OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed).
The Great Central is being followed, just not as far as Rugby - it ends up west of Brackley where it strikes out for Birmingham. But even the straighter curves of the GCML are still too tight for a HS alignment. If you look at the detailed maps, Quainton for example, the HS2 route eases almost all the GC curves anyway.OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed).
ninja-lewis said:
rs1952 said:
I had naively thought that the obvious route for much of the line was up the trackbed of the old Great Central railway that was closed in 1966. Marylebone-Amersham-Aylesbury-Brackley-Woodford Halse-Rugby, then dream up a new route to go west to Brum, plus a bit of new line from St Pancras to join up with the GC - perhaps up to Kentish Town, upgrade the North London line towards the west, then pick it up in the Neasden/ Harrow area.
OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed).
The Great Central is being followed, just not as far as Rugby - it ends up west of Brackley where it strikes out for Birmingham. But even the straighter curves of the GCML are still too tight for a HS alignment. If you look at the detailed maps, Quainton for example, the HS2 route eases almost all the GC curves anyway.OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed).
The link you posted shows that HS2 just "touches" Quainton Road. The new line is not following the alignment of the GC at all to the south east of that point.
And as regards curves on the GC being too sharp for modern high-speed running, the Engineering departments of the railway have been dealing with that sort of thing since the 1850s
. If the existing curvature cannot be eased within the existing land ownership boundaries, buy a bit more 
Progress needs sacrifice, some people are just unlucky if they are going to have their lives affected by the new route. Generally I think this is why the west is a bit screwed, woe arevall so content/well off/selfish etc so major infrastructure works are prevented from happening easily.
rs1952 said:
ninja-lewis said:
rs1952 said:
I had naively thought that the obvious route for much of the line was up the trackbed of the old Great Central railway that was closed in 1966. Marylebone-Amersham-Aylesbury-Brackley-Woodford Halse-Rugby, then dream up a new route to go west to Brum, plus a bit of new line from St Pancras to join up with the GC - perhaps up to Kentish Town, upgrade the North London line towards the west, then pick it up in the Neasden/ Harrow area.
OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed).
The Great Central is being followed, just not as far as Rugby - it ends up west of Brackley where it strikes out for Birmingham. But even the straighter curves of the GCML are still too tight for a HS alignment. If you look at the detailed maps, Quainton for example, the HS2 route eases almost all the GC curves anyway.OK, some of the embankments have been removed, and of course there has been some redevelopment over the trackbed over the 44 years since it closed (but its not been there very long so is hardly likely to fall into the category of "destroying our local heritage"), but that line was specifically built with high speed in mind and is straighter than most still-extant routes to the north. I suspect that a good bit of it is still owned by British Rail Residuals into the bargain (they look after all those old bits of infrastructure of closed railways that never got sold off after the lines closed).
The link you posted shows that HS2 just "touches" Quainton Road. The new line is not following the alignment of the GC at all to the south east of that point.
And as regards curves on the GC being too sharp for modern high-speed running, the Engineering departments of the railway have been dealing with that sort of thing since the 1850s
. If the existing curvature cannot be eased within the existing land ownership boundaries, buy a bit more 
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff