Farage stays on as UKIP leader

[Kermit power]

s2art said:

The Spruce goose said:

s2art said:

Not to me. If the facts change I change my mind, what do you do?

what facts thou, he got vote(for ukip as a whole) but not his seat, he should stick to his word.

He did stick to his word, he offered his resignation. Several facts changed, the most important being that the date of referendum looks to have been brought forward perhaps a year. UKIP need their best communicator in pole position now.

The problem wasn't, in my mind, that he said he'd resign and then promptly un-resigned three days later.

The problem is that he himself said he'd have no credibility leading the party from outside parliament if they had MPs and he wasn't one of them. They have MPs (well, one!), and he isn't it, and as a result, as he himself pointed out, he has no credibility.

[MGJohn]

The Spruce goose said:

"The Father of the House writes in this book: 'If you are contemplating resigning, be entirely sure you really want to go."

A quote from DC.

I have to say i think farage is getting stale, and ukip should change leadership, as to win they need to get away from the 1970's macho man image with chest wig and brut, and try to appeal to a broader demographic,i.e women. Staying does him no favors in my eyes, makes him look indecisive and weak minded.

In your eyes.

UKip can never win. The deck is not stacked that way. What they have won is to alert the Nation as to the range of benefits of EU membership. Job done. NF will lurk as necessary to remind folks of those benefits. At one point it looked like NF was the lone voice alert. Not now so again job done. The Nation can then decide after the onslaught of those who really believe those benefits are good for the longer term well being of this Nation.

Meanwhile, ongoing will be the EU tills continuing to ring ever more loudly @ ca. £50m per day and rising plus the benefit of 300,000 incoming also set to rise under present lack of any constraints.

[TonyToniTone]

Scuffers said:

TonyToniTone said:

So it boils down to amounts rather than principles of their manifesto?

Cheap argument

How is it?

That's exactly the position you are taking.

[TonyToniTone]

s2art said:

He did stick to his word, he offered his resignation. Several facts changed, the most important being that the date of referendum looks to have been brought forward perhaps a year. UKIP need their best communicator in pole position now.

He didn't stick to his word and he didn't mention offering his resignation, he said:

Nigel said:

The consequences of me failing to secure a seat for myself in the Commons would be significant for me and the party.
It is frankly just not credible for me to continue to lead the party without a Westminster seat of my own. What credibility would Ukip have in the Commons if others had to enunciate party policy in Parliament and the party leader was only allowed in as a guest?
Am I supposed to brief Ukip policy from the Westminster Arms?

No – if I fail to win South Thanet, it is curtains for me. I will have to step down.

[s2art]

TonyToniTone said:

s2art said:

He did stick to his word, he offered his resignation. Several facts changed, the most important being that the date of referendum looks to have been brought forward perhaps a year. UKIP need their best communicator in pole position now.

He didn't stick to his word and he didn't mention offering his resignation, he said:

Nigel said:

The consequences of me failing to secure a seat for myself in the Commons would be significant for me and the party.
It is frankly just not credible for me to continue to lead the party without a Westminster seat of my own. What credibility would Ukip have in the Commons if others had to enunciate party policy in Parliament and the party leader was only allowed in as a guest?
Am I supposed to brief Ukip policy from the Westminster Arms?

No – if I fail to win South Thanet, it is curtains for me. I will have to step down.

Nope, all agree that he offered his resignation and was persuaded to stay on by the NEC. Remember that UKIP expected to have a handful of MPs after the election, and that would have made it more difficult for Farage to continue as leader if he wasnt one of them. Didnt happen, the facts changed. Only an idiot doesnt adapt to changed circumstances.

[allergictocheese]

Blah blah, misquote, blah blah, things have changed, blah blah the other parties, blah blah, I'm too popular to go, blah blah, oh look over there, a flying pig!

[s2art]

Kermit power said:

s2art said:

The Spruce goose said:

s2art said:

Not to me. If the facts change I change my mind, what do you do?

what facts thou, he got vote(for ukip as a whole) but not his seat, he should stick to his word.

He did stick to his word, he offered his resignation. Several facts changed, the most important being that the date of referendum looks to have been brought forward perhaps a year. UKIP need their best communicator in pole position now.

The problem wasn't, in my mind, that he said he'd resign and then promptly un-resigned three days later.

The problem is that he himself said he'd have no credibility leading the party from outside parliament if they had MPs and he wasn't one of them. They have MPs (well, one!), and he isn't it, and as a result, as he himself pointed out, he has no credibility.

If he doesnt then who the hell does? So circumstances change and the NEC persuade him to stay on for good reasons. If he wasnt able to be persuaded by sound argument then he really wouldnt have any credibility would he?

[eharding]

s2art said:

Only an idiot doesnt adapt to changed circumstances.

Only an idiot makes himself such a hostage to fortune by making written commitments - in his book, FFS, not just some spur-of-the-moment throwaway comment - presumably with the thought that making such weighty promises enhances his appearance of integrity - without understanding that reneging on those promises in the light of changed circumstance makes him look like an utter weasel.

[s2art]

eharding said:

s2art said:

Only an idiot doesnt adapt to changed circumstances.

Only an idiot makes himself such a hostage to fortune by making written commitments - in his book, FFS, not just some spur-of-the-moment throwaway comment - presumably with the thought that making such weighty promises enhances his appearance of integrity - without understanding that reneging on those promises in the light of changed circumstance makes him look like an utter weasel.

Doesnt make him look like a weasel to me, or apparently the NEC and thousands of party members who were sufficiently motivated to write in and urge him to reconsider. I prefer politicians who are pragmatic and respond to changed circumstances intelligently.

[eharding]

s2art said:

eharding said:

s2art said:

Only an idiot doesnt adapt to changed circumstances.

Only an idiot makes himself such a hostage to fortune by making written commitments - in his book, FFS, not just some spur-of-the-moment throwaway comment - presumably with the thought that making such weighty promises enhances his appearance of integrity - without understanding that reneging on those promises in the light of changed circumstance makes him look like an utter weasel.

Doesnt make him look like a weasel to me, or apparently the NEC and thousands of party members who were sufficiently motivated to write in and urge him to reconsider. I prefer politicians who are pragmatic and respond to changed circumstances intelligently.

I suspect that sort of unquestioning devotion was a factor in his decision to make himself look like a weasel to the rest of us.

[MGJohn]

s2art said:

eharding said:

s2art said:

Only an idiot doesnt adapt to changed circumstances.

Only an idiot makes himself such a hostage to fortune by making written commitments - in his book, FFS, not just some spur-of-the-moment throwaway comment - presumably with the thought that making such weighty promises enhances his appearance of integrity - without understanding that reneging on those promises in the light of changed circumstance makes him look like an utter weasel.

Doesnt make him look like a weasel to me, or apparently the NEC and thousands of party members who were sufficiently motivated to write in and urge him to reconsider. I prefer politicians who are pragmatic and respond to changed circumstances intelligently.

Who knew? Apparently some on here did not.

Folks have been known to change their minds whether by others being persuasive or based on one's own second thoughts.

Meantime, there are those determined to chase their own tails on this unimportant non-event whilst much more urgent things will need to be the focus of all our attentions. As NF has and no doubt will continue to remind us. The EU problems need to be tackled ... effectively.

[don4l]

allergictocheese said:

Blah blah, misquote, blah blah, things have changed, blah blah the other parties, blah blah, I'm too popular to go, blah blah, oh look over there, a flying pig!

I must say that it is an enormous disappointment that the Labour party have not convinced Ed Miliband to stay on.

[jjlynn27]

s2art said:

Nope, all agree that he offered his resignation and was persuaded to stay on by the NEC. Remember that UKIP expected to have a handful of MPs after the election, and that would have made it more difficult for Farage to continue as leader if he wasnt one of them. Didnt happen, the facts changed. Only an idiot doesnt adapt to changed circumstances.

What UKIP expected were not facts. It was unfounded wishful thinking. None of the facts changed. At the time of his #offer# UKIP had one MP. At the time of his unresignation UKIP also had one MP. Those are the facts. Are you confused by the meaning of the word 'fact'?

How is your adaptation going now that Farage changed his tune about taking short money? Are you realigning your opinion?

[Mr_B]

Looks to me that on just PH alone there is more people angry and wasting their life venting about it day after day, than there is Ukip supporters giving a toss.
I really don't know why some of you haven't got something else to do. I don't like Labour or Miliband, but had he stayed on, I wouldn't care one jot. You lot hate Ukip and drone on day after day writing the same old crap over and over.

[MGJohn]

Mr_B said:

Looks to me that on just PH alone there is more people angry and wasting their life venting about it day after day, than there is Ukip supporters giving a toss.
I really don't know why some of you haven't got something else to do. I don't like Labour or Miliband, but had he stayed on, I wouldn't care one jot. You lot hate Ukip and drone on day after day writing the same old crap over and over.

Poor form posting reason and sense on this thread. for you ....

[TKF]

Mr_B said:

Looks to me that on just PH alone there is more people angry and wasting their life venting about it day after day, than there is Ukip supporters giving a toss.
I really don't know why some of you haven't got something else to do. I don't like Labour or Miliband, but had he stayed on, I wouldn't care one jot. You lot hate Ukip and drone on day after day writing the same old crap over and over.

Rich and compelling input without a hint of irony saying that people are writing the same old crap over and over.

[bad company]

don4l said:

I must say that it is an enormous disappointment that the Labour party have not convinced Ed Miliband to stay on.

Yep, that way the Conservatives could look forward to another win in 5 years.

[Axionknight]

bad company said:

don4l said:

I must say that it is an enormous disappointment that the Labour party have not convinced Ed Miliband to stay on.

Yep, that way the Conservatives could look forward to another win in 5 years.

Considering the replacements being lined up, they probably are anyway.

[jjlynn27]

Mr_B said:

Looks to me that on just PH alone there is more people angry and wasting their life venting about it day after day, than there is Ukip supporters giving a toss.
I really don't know why some of you haven't got something else to do. I don't like Labour or Miliband, but had he stayed on, I wouldn't care one jot. You lot hate Ukip and drone on day after day writing the same old crap over and over.

LOL. The thread title is 'Farage stays on as UKIP leader'. Not 'world according to mr B'. Still fun.

[Zod]

This has been both amusing and instructive (UKIP is both in a good place with 3.8m voters and way behind where it needs to be with only one MP and an utterly immature party structure and incoherent message), but they appear finally to have seen sense and made up. Perhaps they can get on now with sorting outlet their party structure and their message.