Ending Benefits Dependency.:Restore our Countries Wealth.

[Steffan]

I am starting this post because I really believe that the country is in dire economic straights and that these are largely fueled by our current benefits for all largess approach.

I am in favour of a benefits system where individuals WHO HAVE PAID INTO THE SYSTEM can be protected for a reasonable period of time if unemployed or unfit. I am NOT in favour of lifestyle chioces such as being a Drunk, a Drug addict, Grossly Overweight or just plain idle entitles you to a lifetime of being supported by the rest of the UK.

The current system is so hopelessly abused and misused that whole sections of society are becoming a burden to the state whilst we import immigrants by the million that do the work that these lazy scroungers lounge prefer to be unavailable to undertake.

This is utterly corrosive and IMO totally unsustainable.

It has to be stopped. As the first real step in addressing our PSBR defecit.

Now how do we get some effective action from government to end this nonsense?

That is my question.

[Steffan]

Dixie68 said:

I agree that the only people getting benefits should be those that have paid in, but if people are worried about the workshy starving to death then fair enough we'll give them benefits too - but only in exchange for community work; picking up rubbish, cleaning off graffiti, filling potholes etc. We could have the cleanest country in the world.

I think this suggestion has real possibilities.

No reasonable person wants to see any individual in the UK starving or homeless.

But if we go on as we are we are all going to be in serious economic Dodo.

The country cannot afford (ie produce enough wealth) to allow this madness to continue.

We need to put the onus on every unemployed person to find a job. It is NOT their concern at the moment. We also need to stop child benefits beyond the second child. Otherwise no family with six or more children ever needs to work.

Having children cannot be a means of support. Its a lifestyle choice but why should everybody else subsidise the producers?

Unless we start making difficult and painful reductions in the PSBR we will be facing bankruptcy as a nation. This is NOT a sustainable system it will ruin the country. We must act. Question is how.

[Steffan]

I think a fundamental change of approach is needed.

I agree that a requirement to join community schemes or similar work requirement schemes have something to offer.

But we must redress the problem of voluntary unemployment.

Many individuals in the UK are choosing a lifestyle that can only be sustained if they are on benefits. Does the average taxpayer realise that Drug Addicts and Alcoholics are supported by the welfare system. I do not think so.

We face a stark choice as a Nation.

Either we find a way of reducing welfare costs or we gradually sink into national bankruptcy. Otherwise the bill will get bigger and bigger more and more people will not bother with work and the whole nation will suffer accordingly. We are NOT in an equilibrium as a Nation we spend more than we earn. This has to change. Welfare payments must be reduced.

Quite simply we cannot have it all. If we want economic stability we must make the changes necessary to produce it. Humanitarian aid is laudable but we are already beyond the point of no return unless we change the system now.

[Steffan]

powerstroke said:

nm231 said:

What about sending home many of the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that have appeared here over the last few years. Surely that will free up many jobs and money as there will be less immigrants on benefits aswell.

you wouldent need too !!!! if benifits were realy paired back to just food stamps and a hostel place for the unimployed they would soon get the idea to compete with the foreign labour for the jobs the chavs feel are beneath them or are too bone idle to do at
the moment.. I would do away with all the tax credits family allowance but increase the threshold tax is paid so if you work hard do overtime or a extra job it will be rewarded you could maybe have a minimum 40% flat tax rate for non residents

Edited by powerstroke on Sunday 4th September 21:57

I agree with your sentiments.

Until the government face this problem the economy is going to continue to decline. Ever able bodies individual has to be totally committed to working to earn a living.

And a substantial minority will not look for work if they can find a way of avoiding work. Work must be the centre piece of every UK residents life. It is completely unrealistic and pernicious to regard work as something you do as a last resort.

That is the attitude the benefits system has engendered in millions of benefits claimants in the UK and we have to find a way to stop it.

[Steffan]

Digga said:

RichardD said:

Digga said:

So why do we persist in taxing those who are deemed to be at or near 'the minimum'?

Is it at this point I post the standard PH type answer regarding creating

(Although isn't this anomoly still supposed to be something that will be sorted out).

Sorted out along with all the other red tape brave Dave promised to slay but now somehow doens't think he can do without. I get the feeling - thinking along "yes Minister" lines here - that it's all good and well to want to cut bureacracy when you get elected, but that it's only once you're arse is on a seat in Westminster, you realise who is the tail and who is the dog.

extra non jobs doing admin work in a take it away and give it back sort of system?

Absolutely correct.

It has become increasingly obvious that the current Government in the UK is fudging policy. Lots of talking lots of promises to slash public expenditure.

But in reality, nor real change. All the changes trumpeted like slashing Housing Benefit have been quietly buried.

The Somalian mother of 6 in London on £100,000 HOUSING BENEFIT widely pilloried in recent posts on PH. no change still getting £8500 A MONTH on HOUSING BENEFIT alone. Well over £10,000 a month with all the other benefits.

No need to work whatsoever. Indeed how many PH'ers earn £10,000 a month NET.

[Steffan]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Eric Mc said:

It's a very, very complicated situation and ranting indiscriminately about "immigrants" is pretty pointless.

Agreed. In particular, there IMO has to be some kind of financial "safety net" for the elderly, the genuinely disabled and those unemployed who are at least making an effort. But three key points MUST be addressed,

1. Benefits payments (including housing) which exceed 80% what a "normal" person can earn, and
2. Benefits as a lifestyle choice.
3. Families where "Dad" is the state.

Eric M is absolutely right. And so is Ozzie Osmond.

We need fundamental change to the benefits system. Ranting is not the answer.

But I fear it will not happen.

The current governments is strong on hot air and ineffective at making the necessary structural changes.

Moonpig and Co would be much worse because they will not even admit the truth about the Welfare state as we have it today. Ed Balls is a selfish idiot who cannot even see that Gordon and Co (Ed Balls!!and TB) made a whole series of wrong decisions over the previous fourteen years economically. The New Labour administration drove our economy into the ground at full speed.

The Benefits system has become completely unaffordable.

But it continues. Unabated.

Economic meltdown here we come.

[Steffan]

Ozzie Osmond said:

"The Death of Respect" BBC2 at 11.20 p.m. tonight.

Part 1 of a 2-parter. John Ware asks what has happened to British values and behaviour over the last 50 years.

Thanks for that, I will be watching.