Points for discussion?

[vonuber]

Not seen these posted yet on PH and thought they would be a good point for discussion, so:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235576/Ho...

and:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/17/tre...

in the interest of balance, one is from PH's favourite newspaper of truth and honesty, and one from the typically rabid political propaganda agency.

Surprised these have not been brought up, if they have then feel free to close