Winnie Johnson Dies
Discussion
http://news.sky.com/story/974095/mother-of-moors-m...
Very sad and she never saw her son found.
Do you think he will ever be found?
Is it finally time for a concerted effort is made to find him?
Thoughts.
Very sad and she never saw her son found.
Do you think he will ever be found?
Is it finally time for a concerted effort is made to find him?
Thoughts.
NightRunner said:
I'd say no.
Mainly for the reason that peat bogs aren't static - so if the police were given an exact location for when he was buried, odds are the body would have shifted - would take some finding.
I suppose some things are just best left. Now his mother is dead, would there be any real benefit in finding the body?
Having thought about this for decades, you do have to ask yourself whether he hasn't been found simply because if it's difficulty.Mainly for the reason that peat bogs aren't static - so if the police were given an exact location for when he was buried, odds are the body would have shifted - would take some finding.
I suppose some things are just best left. Now his mother is dead, would there be any real benefit in finding the body?
Aren't we at a time where anything is possible with enough time and manpower.
I'd get my wellies on and help.
You have to put youself in the family's position. If he was my son or uncle, I'd want him found.
plasticpig said:
aryastark said:
Not sure if I've missed something, but why not torture the little s
te until he tells all?...
And sink to the same level as Brady? He hasn't even been convicted of Keith Johnsons murder. The CPS refused to prosecute him for it. It's all very sad but the police have already spent enormous resources looking for the remains. Those resources are far better spent looking after the living rather than someone who was murdered 42 years ago.te until he tells all?...Endless foreign aid, nuclear missile, inefficient Government etc and we can't spend a bit of money and time finding just 1 boy.
Murph7355 said:
Do you have even the remotest comprehension of what it might take to find a child's remains where they put them 40+ years ago?
The timing of the arrest of the visitor and Mrs Johnson's death just goes to show what a bh life is at times 
I'm an advocate of the death penalty when there is zero doubt in a heinous crime. But for this piece of low life I'd happily make an exception and ensure he stayed alive as long as possible in the grimmest way.
Noting we're not a third world nation is all well and good. But sometimes I'm not convinced we are necessarily "superior". In being "civilised", we often seem to pay less attention to the victims' "rights" than we do the criminal's. And that seems neither civilised nor "right" to me.
Yes I do but the question I would ask everyone is, if it was your child and behind your house was a 1000 acre farm and your child was buried somewhere on it, would you want them found or left because of the time and expense?The timing of the arrest of the visitor and Mrs Johnson's death just goes to show what a b
h life is at times I'm an advocate of the death penalty when there is zero doubt in a heinous crime. But for this piece of low life I'd happily make an exception and ensure he stayed alive as long as possible in the grimmest way.
Noting we're not a third world nation is all well and good. But sometimes I'm not convinced we are necessarily "superior". In being "civilised", we often seem to pay less attention to the victims' "rights" than we do the criminal's. And that seems neither civilised nor "right" to me.
I know moors land isn't like farmland but nevertheless, it could be done and I find it very likely that there would be a long queue of volunteers eager to help too.
I personally can't get past the fact that it is tragic and shameful that we don't even try.
Murph7355 said:
longshot said:
...
I know moors land isn't like farmland ...
Understatement of the year.I know moors land isn't like farmland ...
If you apply infinite people with infinite time to any problem it can be solved. Two slight problems with that though.
Which does not detract from how tragic the situation is. Brady and Hindley really were nasty pieces of work, and infinite pain inflicted upon them would not be enough (if that makes me uncivilised, so be it).
f
k me that's going to be really hard and time consuming so fk it, we won't bother.Nasa have just spent millions on a Rover and probably billions to get it to the surface of Mars.
Why? To satisfy our curiosity about the red planet, to poke and prod some rocks and give us information which is of no practical purpose whatsoever.
We can do all of that but can't have the humanity to find a little lost lad.
I ask the question of you then. What if it was your lad out there?
Would you do all you could to persuade another search for him or just say f
k it?Murph7355 said:
I genuinely have no idea how I'd feel if it were a relative of mine.
I don't think I hold sufficient store in "christian burial" to make that particular element of the situation add any more trauma to the fact that the relative was tortured and murdered. When someone's gone, they're gone. And placing a physical body in a different place doesn't change that and I don't think would "help" me (which is not to dismiss those who do gain some comfort from this of course).
Perhaps this marks me out as something uncivilised, but in this hypothetical situation I think I would much sooner the resources were expended on ensuring Brady suffered a million times worse than he made my relative suffer.
If you haven't been, you really should go to the moors. Try walking across their length and breadth. Have a go at digging some of it up - see how deep you can go. Understand what much of it is made of and how that makes the difficulty factor even harder.
This isn't digging up your back garden. Without being able to narrow the search area down confidently to a very small area (relatively), I can't begin to think how much manpower you would need and what sort of costs would be racked up. Taking the emotion out of it, who should pay that bill?
To a certain extent I share your opinion.I don't think I hold sufficient store in "christian burial" to make that particular element of the situation add any more trauma to the fact that the relative was tortured and murdered. When someone's gone, they're gone. And placing a physical body in a different place doesn't change that and I don't think would "help" me (which is not to dismiss those who do gain some comfort from this of course).
Perhaps this marks me out as something uncivilised, but in this hypothetical situation I think I would much sooner the resources were expended on ensuring Brady suffered a million times worse than he made my relative suffer.
If you haven't been, you really should go to the moors. Try walking across their length and breadth. Have a go at digging some of it up - see how deep you can go. Understand what much of it is made of and how that makes the difficulty factor even harder.
This isn't digging up your back garden. Without being able to narrow the search area down confidently to a very small area (relatively), I can't begin to think how much manpower you would need and what sort of costs would be racked up. Taking the emotion out of it, who should pay that bill?
I don't really care what happens to me when I die. They could put me in the bin for all I care, but obviously to the Bennett family it does.
I also think it would draw a line under the murders and would probably piss Brady off big time as his bargaining tool/opportunity to continue the torture/keeping himself in the public eye would be removed and he would finally, hopefully, become just a sad old con rotting away wherever he is.
I have been to the moors a long time ago.
I believe there are parts that are mobile but the majority is stable and stationary.
Modern technology could be used on these areas to discover disturbed ground but as you say it would untimately require significant manpower to complete the task.
As for paying for it..I don't know.
I do believe that the public interest in this is considerable and I believe that a large volunteer army could be created to offer some help.
I just distresses me that he's still out there. It always has and I fear that with Winnies passing, Keith's last chance may have died with her.
There's so many books, tv programmes, newspaper stories, one day no doubt a film about it.
It still holds a lot of interest for people. I fonly we could turn that interest into action.
It's unfinished business while he's up there.
Edited by longshot on Saturday 18th August 22:42
Eric Mc said:
longshot said:
So that's it is it?
fk me that's going to be really hard and time consuming so fk it, we won't bother.
Nasa have just spent millions on a Rover and probably billions to get it to the surface of Mars.
Why? To satisfy our curiosity about the red planet, to poke and prod some rocks and give us information which is of no practical purpose whatsoever.
We can do all of that but can't have the humanity to find a little lost lad.
I ask the question of you then. What if it was your lad out there?
Would you do all you could to persuade another search for him or just say fk it?
Do you think NASA and the American taxpayer should be tasked with searching these moors then?f
k me that's going to be really hard and time consuming so fk it, we won't bother.Nasa have just spent millions on a Rover and probably billions to get it to the surface of Mars.
Why? To satisfy our curiosity about the red planet, to poke and prod some rocks and give us information which is of no practical purpose whatsoever.
We can do all of that but can't have the humanity to find a little lost lad.
I ask the question of you then. What if it was your lad out there?
Would you do all you could to persuade another search for him or just say f
k it?
I was demonstrating the amazing things that the human race is capable of and the endless amounts of money that we spend on them simply to satisfy our curiosity, yet finding a lad whose location is pretty much known, is beyond us because of a shortage of cash and interest.
Sending a probe to Mars cannot be simpler than finding keith Bennett, yet that we have done and he is still lost.
It's a redundant argument really as we all know that as a species we have transient care and passion reserved for what's in the headlines on that particular day.
Sending a probe to Mars cannot be simpler than finding keith Bennett, yet that we have done and he is still lost.
It's a redundant argument really as we all know that as a species we have transient care and passion reserved for what's in the headlines on that particular day.
Eric Mc said:
But why conflate two things that have nothing to do with each other?
I would wager that the entire cost of the Moors case over the 50 years would already be quite substantial. There have been quite a few searches over the decades and ALL of teh children were found - except for one. Are people trying to insinuate that the authoriies didn't care and didn't try?
I think that is a gross insult to everyone involved in this half century old case.
Are we reading the same thread?I would wager that the entire cost of the Moors case over the 50 years would already be quite substantial. There have been quite a few searches over the decades and ALL of teh children were found - except for one. Are people trying to insinuate that the authoriies didn't care and didn't try?
I think that is a gross insult to everyone involved in this half century old case.
You insinuate that yet you are the one who said you'd rather have the mars rover than have a young boy found and given a descent burial.
Eric Mc said:
longshot said:
Eric Mc said:
But why conflate two things that have nothing to do with each other?
I would wager that the entire cost of the Moors case over the 50 years would already be quite substantial. There have been quite a few searches over the decades and ALL of teh children were found - except for one. Are people trying to insinuate that the authoriies didn't care and didn't try?
I think that is a gross insult to everyone involved in this half century old case.
Are we reading the same thread?I would wager that the entire cost of the Moors case over the 50 years would already be quite substantial. There have been quite a few searches over the decades and ALL of teh children were found - except for one. Are people trying to insinuate that the authoriies didn't care and didn't try?
I think that is a gross insult to everyone involved in this half century old case.
You insinuate that yet you are the one who said you'd rather have the mars rover than have a young boy found and given a descent burial.
I thought all burials were of a "descent" nature.
Being buried in a hole up on the moors which he was dumped in after being murdered isn't descent in my opinion. What about yours?
Eric Mc said:
Murph7355 said:
longshot said:
Is that a promise?
Being buried in a hole up on the moors which he was dumped in after being murdered isn't descent in my opinion. What about yours?
"Decent" is what Eric is getting at.Being buried in a hole up on the moors which he was dumped in after being murdered isn't descent in my opinion. What about yours?
k me, my sides have split.What a dick you are.
Eric Mc said:
I don't mind being called names. I always look on it as a mark of the intellect of the name caller.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of people go missing in the UK every year. In the almost 50 years since this poor little chap was abducted and murdered, tens of thousands must have disappeared completely.
Are people seriously advocating that massive national resources should be devoted to the search for all these people?
Or if they are advocating a special case for this particular missing person, how would you explain the lack of commitment of the same level of resources to the families of all those other missing persons?
Funny you should say that.Hundreds, if not thousands, of people go missing in the UK every year. In the almost 50 years since this poor little chap was abducted and murdered, tens of thousands must have disappeared completely.
Are people seriously advocating that massive national resources should be devoted to the search for all these people?
Or if they are advocating a special case for this particular missing person, how would you explain the lack of commitment of the same level of resources to the families of all those other missing persons?
I've certainly built an impression of you, a man who plays childish pranks on a thread like this.
+100 cool points. Nice one.
I tell you what. further up the page is a link to the Keith Bennett website.
If you go on there, there is a forum about him and the case.
Why don't you go on that forum and post your opinions. I'm sure Alan Bennett who be interested in reading them.
Eric Mc said:
What opinions are those then?
The opinion I expressed here was that it was silly to compare the search for a missing child with a space exploration project. Venturing to the website of a relative of the missing child to tell them that would be just as nonsensical as the original linking of the two totally unrelated activities.
As for name calling, others can engage in that if they want to. If you look back at the many posts I have made on this site over a 10 year period, you will see that it is something I have never sunk to.
Brady is an evil psycopath who obviously gets his kicks from trying to exercise control and administering pain - whether that pain is physical or mental. Unfortunately, I do fear that the last piece of this puzzle is going to remain forever missing due to his inhumane personality.
The opinion that large anounts of resources shouldn't be used to find lost people?The opinion I expressed here was that it was silly to compare the search for a missing child with a space exploration project. Venturing to the website of a relative of the missing child to tell them that would be just as nonsensical as the original linking of the two totally unrelated activities.
As for name calling, others can engage in that if they want to. If you look back at the many posts I have made on this site over a 10 year period, you will see that it is something I have never sunk to.
Brady is an evil psycopath who obviously gets his kicks from trying to exercise control and administering pain - whether that pain is physical or mental. Unfortunately, I do fear that the last piece of this puzzle is going to remain forever missing due to his inhumane personality.
To be honest, I'm not going to try to explain the comparison between to 2 because you either can't or don't want to see it.
A thread about Winnie and Keith has been reduced to this.
I'm not going to post on this thread anymore in the hope it gets back to it's intended purpose.
Hopefully you will do the same but I suspect you will want the last word.
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