Fiscal Cliff

[unrepentant]

Gotta love this President. He whipped their asses in the election in November. Now the GOP told him to blink. He said "you blink mofos". They blinked, he won again.

That's vested interests and morons 0 The American people 3

This is a politician with balls. Small wonder he tops the gallup poll of most admired man amongst Americans for the 5th year in a row.

[unrepentant]

Brother D said:

The Gordon Brown of America? - You are very strange.

You're funny.

Look where the UK is under CMD and the Euro Zone is under austerity. Then look at the USA under Obama - 33 consecutive months of job growth, rising housing market, record company profits, stock market at record highs, consumer confidence rising etc.. Not to say anything of the new healthcare program and other social changes and the end of 2 wars.

Gordon Brown was a profligate schmuck who never won an election and who sold off the UK's gold reserves at the bottom of the market and mismanaged the economy to the brink of collapse. Obama won 2 elections and took a broken economy that was haemororrhaging 800,000 jobs a month and turned it around.

[unrepentant]

TheHeretic said:

So is this true, or not?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/w...

Is tha majority of the BO spending actually the pre-assigned budget of the previous administration under Bush, namely the stimulus? (This was the stimulus that was being voted on during the presidential race from what I remember, as McCain made a big deal of going back to vote in it)?

Absolutely! It's a fallacy to describe Obama as a spender. People accuse him of being a big government liberal but there are hundreds of thousands fewer public employees now than there were when he came into office. We had all these arguments during the election and he won them. Even conservatives accept that the defecit will be cut considerably during his second term. That's why even on the morning after the election the likes of Limbaugh were lamenting the fact that Obama would "unfairly" claim credit for the recovery.

Obama has done what was neccessary to turn round the ship of state but it's a big ship and it was sinking when he became the skipper so it takes a while to turn.

The republicans are obsessed with tax cuts for the few, it's their answer to everything. Well we tried that and it failed and what's more it was rejected by the electorate.

[unrepentant]

ellroy said:

Which 3 indicies are you referencing?

Rusell 2000 is above its previous high and for US small cap is widely regarded and used.

Dow? 30 massive stocks and part of S&P 500. Nasdaq? Narrow tech focus.

S&P 500? about 7% off all time high.

Not querying your conclusions per se, just some of the data on this point.

Dow is within 1.5% of it's high. And is 52% higher than where Bush left it.

[unrepentant]

Digga said:

turbobloke said:

Digga said:

devonshiredave said:

This should be fun..... Just hope the markets keep confidence in Americas ability to pay.

Is there a world series for kicking the can?

There will come a time surely, where the credibility of the USD as reserve currency passes a tipping point and markets re-align?

Then it will get ugly, but for now this is all part of the race to the bottom.

Ineffective government + Credulous electorate + Stein's Law = USA facing major problems

Stein's Law: What cannot go on forever will not go on forever.

Short-term it's all wonderful!

Seems the fact - although widely reported throughout last year - has yet to reach the US public and the majority of their elected representatives.

They still think they can get away with the attitude of the 1971, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Connally who said, "It's our currency and your problem".

The defecit will fall substantially over the next 4 years as the economy grows, even the republicans agree with that. Fact is we have a growing economy, most of Europe does not. The reason for that is the policy of stimulation rather than austerity. The republicans approach in 2008 was to cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. By 2012 their approach was to ........... cut taxes for the rich and slash spending EU style. GWB cut taxes and it left us with the defecit that Obama inherited. No Bush tax cuts and no Iraq war and we wouldn't have a defecit.

Economically I'd far rather be here with Obamanomics that there with gormless George and dumb Dave in charge.

[unrepentant]

turbobloke said:

Indeed. Then again the OP will tell us who blinks first in Feb...

The debt ceiling will have to rise. The GOP got slammed over the debacle last time when S&P downgraded. They can huff and puff but their congressmen have to face the electorate again next year. The tea party took a pasting in Nov, can't see them wanting to go before an angry electorate again in a hurry.

[unrepentant]

JagLover said:

unrepentant said:

The debt ceiling will have to rise. The GOP got slammed over the debacle last time when S&P downgraded. They can huff and puff but their congressmen have to face the electorate again next year. The tea party took a pasting in Nov, can't see them wanting to go before an angry electorate again in a hurry.

As far as the Republicans are concerned they had to make sure that taxes weren't raised for most Americans, which they have now achieved. There is a long time before the next congressional elections so if they are ever going to make a stand this is the ideal time.

I think you've been drinking the republican Koolaid. Most GOP congressmen couldn't give a toss about protecting the middle class from tax hikes. They were quite happy to go along with Romney's plan that would have raised taxes on middle America whilst protecting the interests of the vested interests that fund their campaigns. Even Boehner's "plan B" entended huge tax cuts to millionaires whilst shifting the burden to the middle classes.

We're going to see better than expected job numbers this week, with construction leading the way. America can deal with the defecit by growing the economy and that's what will happen. Four years on from the disaster that was the Bush regime and the US has avoided the double dip recesssions and is now growing again.

[unrepentant]

London424 said:

But you aren't growing...it's all smoke and mirrors.

Go and see how they calculate GDP...then look at that mountain of debt. You'll see the 2 are linked.

At the end of the day we all have opinions and that's what makes the world go round. I live and work in middle America and I have a very positive viewpoint which is fashioned by my own experience and by talking to people here. The housing market is finally moving again, hose builders are building again and that's usually a precursor to improved growth. Improved growth will see the defecit fall quickly and I don't think it's beyond the ralm of possibility that we are going to see a big jump in growth. We'll have to see won't we?

[unrepentant]

London424 said:

Yep...I guess it depends on your definition of growth as well I suppose.

How many years do you guess until the deficit is half what is now? So about 500-600 billion.

No idea. I'm not an economist, just a bloke with a view. I'm also looking at the total debt figure of $16 trillion which is where the long term focus has to be.

Growth improves everything and the indicators are good for growth.

I'd be more worried if I were still a UK tax payer. External debt of 500% of GDP?