Is the UK tax system day light robbery

[IATM]

Hi All

Having just turned the ripe old age of 27 ( I feel old ) certain things about life have dawned on me. I have worked since I was 14 having part time jobs while being in full time education going to full time employment for the last 7 years.

Through this time I have had the pleasure of paying various taxes; income, council, road, VAT on purchases, nic (I consider it a type of tax). Clearly paying taxes irritates everyone to some extent however on the whole I have always felt its worth it for the service we got as a nation; until recently.

I have been looking into starting my own business reading into corporation tax, income tax, CGT etc

It baffles me at how many stages the government taxes us; without getting too much into the business side of tax and how I feel it's almost day light robbery; really putting people off on starting a business what are people's views.

My mentality may be wrong however over the last week I have had it in my head:

Have your own business/ full time employment you get taxed, you buy an item there is tax on it, take a crap in your home you get taxed, buy a home you pay them stamp duty; tax just seems to be everywhere.

Just feels like you get shafted left right and centre...... Am I wrong?

[IATM]

s p a c e m a n said:

The problem for me has never been the amount of tax, it's what they do with it. Feels like constantly giving money to the wife for the upkeep on the mansion and to send the little brats to school and all that she does is spend it on ste, pay over the odds for everything and then have the children educated by the village idiot. Oh and she keeps on sending cheques to her mates all over the world just to keep them happy incase we ever need something off of them.

This is actually exactly what I was trying to get across in my post; Maybe it doesn't come across that way. As I have mentioned you get taxed in many ways however do we get value for money. Our government who are essentially people who should have the best interests of our country have more interest in ling their pockets. Many services that were run by the gov are now privatised.

[IATM]

Eric Mc said:

Falls over all faint!

We have seen plenty of examples of private enterprise "services" (from banks to care homes) fall over and have to be bailed out by government funds.

Having profit motivated entities in place to provide crucial services can backfire massively for all sorts of reasons and can end up costing the taxpayer more money than if the service had been kept in public ownership.

100% agree with this post and its a face of todays world which angers me very much. Many of the services we used to have; public services are now privatized however the primary motive for these so called services are not to provide a good service to the tax payers who rightfully should expect it, its to make a profit.

Each and every person in this country is accountable for their actions, what wrongs they do and more specifically regarding an entity/person running a business they are accountable to ensure they provide the best service value for money service/goods. Why is the government not accountable for providing the services we deserve or pay for.

Who is checking or should be checking that a certain amount of money should be used for roads maintenance, NHS and schools, who is checking that the money is being spent well and we are getting good value for money; who is being held accountable.

In the current state of the country, essentially we are paying higher taxes and receiving a worse service.

[IATM]

Eric Mc said:

RSoovy4 said:

Eric Mc said:

And so do I - it's called National Insurance and Tax - and that is the way I like to do it because I think of others as well as myself and/or my immediate family.

So do I Eric, you've really got me all wrong here I think.

I do think that a man's main responsibility is to provide for his family. I am happy to help others, of course, but surely if the three of us don't ever intend to use, for example, the NHS, then it's not too much to ask (surely) that I be given a small proportion of credit for that, in order to better provide for my own brood?

How do you work it out?

What services do you chose not to use?



How do you value the services you chose not to use?

How do you know what services you THOUGHT you might never use but you end up using through force of circumstance later in your life?

What happens if one of the privately contracted services you paid for fails to deliver (it does happen - for all sorts of reasons)?

RSoovy4 has a valid point here that sometimes it can be frustrating paying for something that you don't benefit and a discount maybe on a yearly basis would be nice - Ideally is it possible to put a system in place to set this up. Yes it possibly is but lets be honest the government will never do that in its wildest dreams.

Also I am happy to pay taxes for services such as the NHS, Schools etc as it benefits us and also the wider community. Delving further into the NHS service I consider it more of an insurance policy. God forbid if I ever got cancer, or a life threatening illness then the NHS would be there (I hope) to take care of me. None of us can say we won't get sick.

[IATM]

fbrs said:

IATM said:

Hi All

Having just turned the ripe old age of 27...
Just feels like you get shafted left right and centre...... Am I wrong?

no you're not. i think it dawned on me about the same time but it took another 5 years to actually leave. the uk mananges to combine a relatively high tax rate with a relatively low quality of life and as far as i can tell its only going one way...

I have to agree with your view and that is my main gripe. My issue is not paying taxes, its what am i getting for them.

[IATM]

oyster said:

IATM said:

Each and every person in this country is accountable for their actions, what wrongs they do and more specifically regarding an entity/person running a business they are accountable to ensure they provide the best service value for money service/goods. Why is the government not accountable for providing the services we deserve or pay for.

Who is checking or should be checking that a certain amount of money should be used for roads maintenance, NHS and schools, who is checking that the money is being spent well and we are getting good value for money; who is being held accountable.

The government is very accountable.

On a daily basis the media and opposition parties hold the government to account. On a weekly basis the House of Commons holds the PM to account. Additionally parliamentary select committees hold government ministers and senior civil servants to account. The House of Lords holds the government to account. And best of all, every 5 years, YOU hold the government to account.

That is a fair point and makes sense; however I can't help but think is it all for show? Are they really held accountable for their actions.

The statements on this thread alone state that many of our services can be run better, more efficiently. I can't imagine for one second anyone can 100% say yes they could do it better as none of us have the experience to run a country however managing expenditure a few people I am sure can do very well.

Today I was reading the news and it stated a particular council in spending in excess of 200k to restore some boat that has some historic significance. I am all for history, culture and preserving the history of our country however in this current economy was it vital to start this work now? 200k could have been used to fund local businesses, create 10 jobs, help pensioners pay for their lighting bill, fix the roads that are riddled with pot holes. I am sure if they let the actual item rot for few more years it wouldn't disintegrate into a pile of dust.

Just begs the question - who authorized this, why and how the decision came about that this was the best spend of money for the local/wider community.

Found the article: http://world.topnewstoday.org/world/article/506547...

[IATM]

Countdown said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Yes, and the price is too high for the outcomes.

I'm not sure how you're making this judgement. For example a person earning £50k will be paying (roughly) £15k in direct Tax & NI. Add on another £2k for council tax = £17k pa. For this he gets

Education
24 hour healthcare (GP, A&E, Hospitals)
Elderly care
Support for any disbaled children
Police, Prisons, Courts
Fire services
Roads maintenance
Refuse collection

I appreciate he might not use some/any/all of the above services. But he'll expect the State to pick up the tab when he [bdoes[/b]. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to buy all the above services privately for the same cost.

Johnnytheboy said:

This thread has gone the same way as threads on public spending do: when someone suggests it's too high or the state spends it unwisely someone else replies "don't you want doctors/teachers/etc.?"

Which services would [byou[/b] cut and how much tax would this save?

That is a very theoretical answer to the post you are replying to.

The dispute is not the services we get; it is the quality of services we get. Education is many part is of a poor standard; waiting times on the NHS are becoming next to a joke; the few times I have used the local NHS/doctor I can't get an appointment for at least a week; police take a decade to arrive and roads are close to the quality of a third world country if not worse.

It's the efficiency of that 17k spent. Also the17k does not take into account all of the other many many taxes that are charged.