Post EU renegotiation poll, have opinions changed?

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OK, we have had the Chamberlin moment, CMD's got his 'deal', is it enough or just a total farce?

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MickC said:

Um. We would still have to pay them, but only at 'Romainian Standard of Living' levels. And even that's open to legalities. What a waste of time.

Why would we still have to pay?

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Richjam said:

Scuffers said:

MickC said:

Um. We would still have to pay them, but only at 'Romainian Standard of Living' levels. And even that's open to legalities. What a waste of time.

Why would we still have to pay?

Thats the deal thats been negotiated. If there child benefit rate is higher than ours I assume we would have to match it according to the deal. Maybe we could just scrap child benefit totally and not pay it to anyone?

If we leave, we pay nothing.

As a side, i think it should be scrapped full stop, it was created to deal with a problem that simply no longer exists.

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Really?

We need to get away from paying benefits full stop for everybody.

If we got peoples employers to pay proper wages, then there would be non reason to pay any benefits outside of hardship and unemployment.

this country along with the EU has gone down the route of high tax/high benefit Society which has to be the most inefficient way of providing a working living to everybody that man could possibly devise.

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Ridley said:

Yep. And it looks like the OP hasn't even read the deal before deciding it's a farce.

Yes, i have, have you?

Nothing in that deal is even a certainly, the EU can cast it out at any moment.

Please tell me what's in this deal that's worth anything other than some words?

Watching cmd on tv new, it's a f**king joke, most of the benefits he keeps going on about are nothing to do with our membership of the EU.

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Ridley said:

Then why didn't you know that child benefit would still be paid?

sorry where I said otherwise or even implied such?

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Ridley said:

Scuffers said:

Ridley said:

Then why didn't you know that child benefit would still be paid?

sorry where I said otherwise or even implied such?

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MickC said:

Um. We would still have to pay them, but only at 'Romainian Standard of Living' levels. And even that's open to legalities. What a waste of time.

Why would we still have to pay?

Goldfish

What?

Are you on drugs or something?

If we pull out of the EU we will not be paying anything.

Is that such a hard concept to understand?

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Ridley said:

Scuffers said:

Is that such a hard concept to understand?

Your inability to follow a discussion makes it incredibly hard to have a conversation.

Have a read of what the other posters have written. They're talking about the negotiated deal, not the result of us leaving.

Hhello?

Mr pot?

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having just sat though both the Marr and sunday politics shows, and all I can say is what a load of bull.

project fear really is the order of the day, like world trade will stop if we leave, and we won't be able to secure our country without the EU arrest warrant etc etc etc.

Farage pointed out that the trade deal with Canada has taken 7 years so far with the EU, in which time, trade has simply gone elsewhere.

the EU is a dying trade zone, China/India/Asia are the growth markets, yet the EU is not even talking to them over trade.

as I said before, if we actually do vote to leave CMD has to go, nobody will trust him to negotiate our exit.

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ok looking at this from another perspective will vote to leave just what level of panic is going to set in the rest of the EU?

they just lost their single biggest market they've lost their second largest financial contributor and the eurozone is still in deep trouble, live lost one of the only two members with a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, what do you think they'll do next?

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interesting point of view and I don't actually disagree with much of it,

My thought would be if we leave that leaves Germany to foot the bill for the rest of the EU and I can't see that situation lasting long, the other problem is that Germany is disproportionately exposed if we leave and don't get a free trade deal the rest of the EU has less of a problem with that but obviously more a problem with free movement And the need for money.

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Germany has done very well out of the euro, sold a lot of stuff to the Greeks etc before it all started to fall apart.

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zygalski said:

Indeed.
The views on PH forums are so far out of touch it doesn't even bare thinking about. A vocal clique of Little Englanders seem to fester here. I well remember one of the "how will you vote at the GE?" polls in which something like 80% of voters on PH who could be arsed to vote in the poll supported UKIP. Many said that the Kippers would hold the balance of power.
Remind me again, how many new UKIP MPs were returned at the last General Election?
In other words, just because a bunch of gobby right wingers state something as fact doesn't necessarily make it so.

yes, because 4 million votes is insignificant isn't it?

put this in perspective, they got more votes than the SNP+Greens+Libdems put together.

and it's not about being a "Little Englander", is that what you called our grandfathers when they were fighting for the sovereignty of the UK back in 1939-45?

it's about the UK being an independent sovereign state.

if you want to go and live in a dictatorship, leave, nobody is stopping you.

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I don't think anybody is looney enough to suggest PH is a representative sample of the general public.

I would suggest the typical poster in here is actually pretty well educated and informed compared to the average, (you only have to read that mumsnet link to realise this).

personally, I find this obsession with the trivial parts of the EU massively frustrating, who the F**K cares about mobile phone roaming charges in the context of paying some £55M a day for the privilege?

our ancestors gave their lives for the UK to remain an independent sovereign state, yet people now seem to think sovereignty/democracy is unimportant?

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plasticpig said:

The UK scores pretty low on the democracy scale.

No elected head of state.
No elected second chamber.
First past the post voting system is non representational. 66.6% of MP's elected in 2010 did not have the support of a majority of voters.

The MP is supposed to represent their constituency but I have never heard of an MP actually polling their constituency to find out what they think. They vote on party lines the vast majority of the time.

The democracy argument doesn't wash with me as the electorate has very little say already. This is not going to change just because we leave the EU.

really?

head of state has no role in management of the country - so irrelevant politically.
second chamber - House of Lords - yes, not ideal, but actually historically have done a pretty decent job, and most of them have been elected as MP/MEP's at some time in their past.
first past the post may not be great, but it's still an election where the electorate pick their government.


compared with the EU commision

Not elected,
lot of them are simply appointments based on who knows who

can you even name the UK's commissioner?

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plasticpig said:

You appear not to understand how the EU works. The commission proposes legislation. It doesn't actually have the power to make that part of EU law. It has to be voted through the European council that consists of the heads of government for each member state and the EU parliament which represents the citizens of the EU and the citizens voted for. Once that has been done it's the commissions job to implement the law. Bear in mind that in some instances in the UK outline legislation is drafted by civil servants and then proposed to the minister for the department responsible.

If this is such a big problem for you then do you also have a problem with the fact the UK cabinet has members who are not elected? Do you have problem with the fact that the Prime Minister doesn't actually have to be an MP as the Prime Minister is appointed by monarch and they can appoint anyone they like.

sorry, but your wrong.

UK ministers are elected to be MP's, then appointed as MP's to cabinet.

they still have to then get legislation passed by both houses.

EU commision are not elected, neither are the council of ministers.

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Puggit said:

Likely to be a legal challenge to the 'emergency brake':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...

there's a surprise!