Will the plan work to turn generation rent into buy?
Discussion
Groat said:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/76813125#/
Won't some poor downtrodden millenial buy me?? Pleeeeeease!!!!!
One word. Cladding. Won't some poor downtrodden millenial buy me?? Pleeeeeease!!!!!
Groat said:
And so we can now easily see what the millenial housing problem is.
It's NOT about there being no affordable properties available, it's about the available affordable properties being NOT what the millenial feels entitled to own. Not nice looking enough. Not in the right area. etc etc yadda yadda bleat
Two minutes on Google maps can tell that the building isn't cladded (although it MAY have an issue which I can't be bothered discussing).
And Google maps can also tell that the immediate area is well tended and orderly with no signs of any antisocial activity etc. Try it.
But no millenial would touch it as a starter flat they could move on from in a year or two and easily afford to retain as a renter currently easily able to generate £5kpa. to put towards their subsequent purchase.....
So it'll be bought by a professional landlord, because no millenial wants it.
Hands up who doesn't fancy a 20% ROI - and this quite possibly from a tenant who's there for 20 years.
That flat is in the most deprived 20% of areas in Scotland (check the SIMD map), bottom 20% for crime, bottom 30% for health, and bottom 10% for education. It's also not really viable to commute from there to Glasgow by car (M77 was a nightmare pre-COVID, if you even have parking in town), which is a shame as you'd need a car to live in that flat. You'd actually save more money living in Glasgow proper.It's NOT about there being no affordable properties available, it's about the available affordable properties being NOT what the millenial feels entitled to own. Not nice looking enough. Not in the right area. etc etc yadda yadda bleat
Two minutes on Google maps can tell that the building isn't cladded (although it MAY have an issue which I can't be bothered discussing).
And Google maps can also tell that the immediate area is well tended and orderly with no signs of any antisocial activity etc. Try it.
But no millenial would touch it as a starter flat they could move on from in a year or two and easily afford to retain as a renter currently easily able to generate £5kpa. to put towards their subsequent purchase.....
So it'll be bought by a professional landlord, because no millenial wants it.
Hands up who doesn't fancy a 20% ROI - and this quite possibly from a tenant who's there for 20 years.
Groat said:
Assuming our millenial doesn't work in Kilmarnock or anywhere else local to the property. And yes, Ayrshire doesn't rate too highly on the statistical measures, but nor do many areas of Glasgow, or anywhere else for that matter.
The point is that the young low-waged 1st time buyer has to start on the bottom rung of the ladder (like all the boomers used to do) or else face the frustration of demanding what they simply can't afford.
Except the boomers didn't do that.The point is that the young low-waged 1st time buyer has to start on the bottom rung of the ladder (like all the boomers used to do) or else face the frustration of demanding what they simply can't afford.
Edited by Groat on Monday 5th April 23:50
What do you propose will happen when the hundreds of thousands of people struggling to get on the property ladder all turn up for the open day in that flat?
It's a common theme in these discussions - some idiot opens rightmove and searches by 'lowest price first,' then posts a s
thole in the middle of nowhere which needs £50,000 spending to make it livable, with no jobs other than sheep sheering. Groat said:
Assuming our millenial doesn't work in Kilmarnock or anywhere else local to the property. And yes, Ayrshire doesn't rate too highly on the statistical measures, but nor do many areas of Glasgow, or anywhere else for that matter.
The point is that the young low-waged 1st time buyer has to start on the bottom rung of the ladder (like all the boomers used to do) or else face the frustration of demanding what they simply can't afford.
I understand your point, but that particular property is a bad example. It's not local to Kilmarnock, it's more than 20 miles away!The point is that the young low-waged 1st time buyer has to start on the bottom rung of the ladder (like all the boomers used to do) or else face the frustration of demanding what they simply can't afford.
Edited by Groat on Monday 5th April 23:50
In Glasgow you can pick up a 1-bed for £50-80k if you're not fussy about the area, which is probably a more realistic 'bottom-rung' price. That's 2-4x the average yearly income in Scotland for a full-time employee. The same properties would've been ~£10k in 1980, when the average yearly income was £6k (I am happy to be fact-checked on these numbers by an actual boomer). That doesn't sound so bad, but this is all in one of the best value areas of the UK for property. I think millennials have it a little harder, even if they do skip the lattes and avocado toast.
Groat said:
In reality it's 16 miles or 20 minutes in a car/bus/train.
But I thought everyone worked from home or did something online especially since the collapse of the highstreets and offices shut coz covid?
Glasgow's dumps have recently had a price jump but you're not far away and there's loads at £50-£80k which really doesn't require either much deposit or much income to buy.
So there really is no problem for millenials in Glasgow or virtually anywhere else other than a few hotspots.
Fair enough on distance by car, but it's an hour from Kilmarnock on the bus and there's no train unless you walk for 40 minutes to Auchinleck!But I thought everyone worked from home or did something online especially since the collapse of the highstreets and offices shut coz covid?
Glasgow's dumps have recently had a price jump but you're not far away and there's loads at £50-£80k which really doesn't require either much deposit or much income to buy.
So there really is no problem for millenials in Glasgow or virtually anywhere else other than a few hotspots.
Edited by Groat on Tuesday 6th April 00:40
1-beds are affordable, but how long can you realistically plan to live in one before needing a bit more space? There's fixed costs around buying a house that you can't avoid, don't you need to be sure you're staying there for at least the mid-long term; else it's not economical? In most areas they don't appreciate in value quite like 2+ bedroom properties do either.
Groat said:
BOO HOO!! WAH! WAH! It's not NIIIIICE enough!! It's not got enough AMEEEEEENITIES!!! It's not in a city centre HOTSPOT!!!
It's EX_COUNCIL!!!!!! It needs a FORTUNE SPENT to make it into 1 Hyde PAAAAARK!!! It doesn't come with a JOOOOOOOB at the wages I demand and I'd have to work from HOOOOOOME or do something ONLINE so I'm just going to SCWEAM and SCWEAM and SCWEAM until somebody sorts it ouuuuut for meeeee!!! BOO HOO!! WAH!! WAH!!
fk off and learn to cut your cloth according to your measure....
Wow. You really went off the deep end there didn’t you? It's EX_COUNCIL!!!!!! It needs a FORTUNE SPENT to make it into 1 Hyde PAAAAARK!!! It doesn't come with a JOOOOOOOB at the wages I demand and I'd have to work from HOOOOOOME or do something ONLINE so I'm just going to SCWEAM and SCWEAM and SCWEAM until somebody sorts it ouuuuut for meeeee!!! BOO HOO!! WAH!! WAH!!
f
k off and learn to cut your cloth according to your measure....I own a perfectly nice house thanks. What a weirdo.
Imagine being such a triggered snowflake that you get set off like that.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 6th April 01:07
Greg_D said:
Crudeoink said:
, houses are almost twice as expensive now as they used to be (relatively), something that keeps getting ignored on this thread.
I don’t accept that to be true... not when you factor in dual incomes. 3.5 times a couple earning £20+25k can get a mortgage of £160k plus a 15k deposit. If you can’t get a workable house for that, you’ve got to move areas or set your sights lower. That’s a neat and tidy, extended 3 bed semi with a drive round here...
I can seriously see more and more youngsters thinking "what is the point" and just living with their parents forever and not even bothering to work. The other option is to come out of university with £50K of debt, get a stressful job where the company expect their pound of flesh and save up for years so you can get a 35 year mortgage on some ex council flat on a sink estate.
Unless your parents are wealthy and can afford to give you a six figure leg up what is the point?
I have effectively been a first time buyer twice, once in 2000 and again in 2020. To give you an idea of how different it was.
1)House was £145K, went to look at it on a whim and didn't have a mortgage in place. Offered on the property, got approved on the mortgage the next day and put the 5% (£7.5K) deposit on my credit card ("I didn't hear that" said the mortgage advisor). I also ran a brand new Subaru Impreza turbo at the time.
2)House was £525K, both of us saved hard for 3 years to get the 20% deposit. Currently run a shed.
House 1 would be roughly worth what house 2 is worth today.
The point I am making is I needed £7.5K in 2000 as the deposit, today I needed £100K+
1)House was £145K, went to look at it on a whim and didn't have a mortgage in place. Offered on the property, got approved on the mortgage the next day and put the 5% (£7.5K) deposit on my credit card ("I didn't hear that" said the mortgage advisor). I also ran a brand new Subaru Impreza turbo at the time.
2)House was £525K, both of us saved hard for 3 years to get the 20% deposit. Currently run a shed.
House 1 would be roughly worth what house 2 is worth today.
The point I am making is I needed £7.5K in 2000 as the deposit, today I needed £100K+
okgo said:
That grand was never going to get anyone anywhere anyway. All of what you've mentioned apart from perhaps holidays are an irrelevance in the grand scheme of saving a deposit.
Unless you can save hundreds a month, ideally thousands in the SE, then its mostly not going to happen. And whether or not you buy a new phone or a new xbox will make very little difference to that.
I have a BTL in Hampshire that I have owned for four years and have rented out to the same couple for that time. In the last four years the value of the house has increased by £60K.Unless you can save hundreds a month, ideally thousands in the SE, then its mostly not going to happen. And whether or not you buy a new phone or a new xbox will make very little difference to that.
So they would have needed to save £1250 a month just to keep up with the value increase alone.
I seriously think if you live in the SE you need to be saving £3K a month for years just to get a deposit together. You can see why for a lot of people this is pie in the sky and they just give up.
This is why it will go mental once the 5% deposit scheme comes in and prices and competition for houses will go insane.
ARHarh said:
Joey Deacon said:
I have a BTL in Hampshire that I have owned for four years and have rented out to the same couple for that time. In the last four years the value of the house has increased by £60K.
So they would have needed to save £1250 a month just to keep up with the value increase alone.
I seriously think if you live in the SE you need to be saving £3K a month for years just to get a deposit together. You can see why for a lot of people this is pie in the sky and they just give up.
This is why it will go mental once the 5% deposit scheme comes in and prices and competition for houses will go insane.
It would only be 20% of that £1250, so £250.So they would have needed to save £1250 a month just to keep up with the value increase alone.
I seriously think if you live in the SE you need to be saving £3K a month for years just to get a deposit together. You can see why for a lot of people this is pie in the sky and they just give up.
This is why it will go mental once the 5% deposit scheme comes in and prices and competition for houses will go insane.
Edited by ARHarh on Tuesday 6th April 11:58
tapandunwrap said:
Houses that need work aren't much cheaper than houses that don't. Where on earth is this perception that cheap do-er uppers exist everywhere at a wild discount?
They don't, maybe they exist at auctions where property developers buy them for cash without the need for a survey?Otherwise the house next door to me has sold for £35K less than we paid but requiring £100K spending on it.
Northernboy said:
My wife and I were in a room in a shared house for a year, then a one bedroom flat for five.
Unless your shared room or 1 bed was more than an hour by car away from well-paid work in a Northern city, with no public transport options, it was better value than the flat we were talking about.red_slr said:
Joey Deacon said:
red_slr said:
3.5x growth in 20 years.... thats not typical IME.
In the South East I would say 3.5 times over the last 20 years is entirely typical, especially for houses.In Dec 2020 it was 341k
So that is 1.75x which is half of the 3.5x claimed.
Even London was only 2.2x over the last 15 years.
2 bed, semi-detached
£627,500 4 Dec 2020 Freehold
£435,000 30 Nov 2007 Freehold
£160,000 2 Sep 1999 Freehold
£160K to £627K in 21 years
6, Beech Road, Weybridge, Surrey KT13 9QF
2 bed, semi-detached
£492,500 26 Nov 2020 Freehold
£406,000 6 Oct 2017 Freehold
£136,000 9 Jul 1999 Freehold
£81,500 23 Oct 1995 Freehold
view less
£136K to £492K in 21 years
Northernboy said:
My current wife found a part-time job on the other side of the Atlantic which meant sleeping on a stranger’s sofa for six months before she managed to afford a studio apartment of her own, which, again, seems perfectly reasonable to people who understand that you might endure some hardship on the way to a nice home. She didn’t even speak the language when she arrived.
Are you suggesting that relocating across the Atlantic for a part-time job is a viable way to improve one's economic standing? I'd likely have to skip quite a few lattes to fund that one, unless I had outside help of course.red_slr said:
Both Weybridge though, one of the fastest growing areas of Surrey?
Crawley, which is neither Surrey or desirable249, Ifield Road, Crawley, West Sussex RH11 7HX
3 bed, semi-detached
£290,000 11 Dec 2020 Freehold
£125,000 4 Feb 2002 Freehold
£60,000 13 May 1999 Freehold
Redhill
1, Arbutus Close, Redhill, Surrey RH1 6NP
3 bed, semi-detached
£420,000 8 Dec 2020 Freehold
£125,000 16 Aug 1999 Freehold
No other historical records
Epsom
8, Galen Close, Epsom, Surrey KT19 7DL
2 bed, semi-detached
£437,500 14 Dec 2020 Freehold
£225,000 16 Jan 2004 Freehold
£146,950 30 Sep 1999
(New Build)
Freehold
Dorking
8, Glebe Road, Dorking, Surrey RH4 3DT
3 bed, detached
£760,000 11 Dec 2020 Freehold
£180,000 6 Jan 1999 Freehold
No other historical records
Want any more examples where prices have increased 3+ times in 20 years?
Northernboy said:
It clearly is viable, my wife did it. She did it without outside help too.
But no, while it was clearly viable for my wife. And while it was clearly viable for me to turn up with nothing three hundred miles from home to start my career, it’s of course completely unreasonable for you to have to make the same sort of efforts.
I must admit, I’m not completely clear on why you’re not expected to make any sacrifices at all, so I’m taking it on trust here.
How do you survive in a foreign nation on a part-time job without outside help, as an immigrant?But no, while it was clearly viable for my wife. And while it was clearly viable for me to turn up with nothing three hundred miles from home to start my career, it’s of course completely unreasonable for you to have to make the same sort of efforts.
I must admit, I’m not completely clear on why you’re not expected to make any sacrifices at all, so I’m taking it on trust here.
As an immigrant to the UK, I am keen to know so that I may employ this same tactic. If my income drops below £20k, I am stuffed so any advice would be appreciated.
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