Exciting but somehow sad - saw Baroness Thatcher today

[ClaphamGT3]

Walking through South Ken today, an XJ8, closely followed by a Range Rover pulled up to the kurb. Protection officers got out of the RR and closed the pavement. Out of the back of the Jaguar got - an extremely frail - Baroness Thatcher. I was less that 3 metres from her as she slowly crossed the pavement to go into a restaurant. It was amazing to see her & she still radiates an amazing presence but she was so frail - it was heart-rending to see someone to whom we all owe so much in such a state; I fear she'll not be with us much longer.

Still, fabulous to have seen her

Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Friday 8th October 01:00

[ClaphamGT3]

Mobile Chicane said:

'To whom we all owe so much'?

Please, elucidate.

Do you remember the UK pre-1979?

[ClaphamGT3]

CDP said:

working class said:

AndrewW-G said:

working class said:

So, will she get police protection till the day she dies? Like American presidents do?

they all do, to a greater (blair at a cost to all of us of millions a year) or lesser extent (winky at no doubt much reduced cost, given the amount of time he's been spending in the nut house in Edinburgh)

Why though? What use would Maggie be now to anyone that wished to kidnap her?

There are plenty of nutters about and Mrs. Thatcher probably features in more than one fantasy. Not to mention some of the terrorist groups who would long to claim somebody so iconic.

Sadly true - I suspect that with Blair & Brown, most would say 'good riddance'

[ClaphamGT3]

john_p said:

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

This is the ultimate testament to how radical what she did was; sure there will always be the nay-sayers, the serial malcontents & the vocal socialist minority splashing around in their own tank of bitter p*ss but the hard reality is that she brought prosperity hitherto unimaginable to the overwhelming majority of ordinary people in this country, social cohesion and mobility the like of which we haad never seen before and the largest move ever made since the introduction of universal sufferage towards a truly meritocratic society.

[ClaphamGT3]

BOR said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

john_p said:

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

This is the ultimate testament to how radical what she did was; sure there will always be the nay-sayers, the serial malcontents & the vocal socialist minority splashing around in their own tank of bitter p*ss but the hard reality is that she brought prosperity hitherto unimaginable to the overwhelming majority of ordinary people in this country, social cohesion and mobility the like of which we haad never seen before and the largest move ever made since the introduction of universal sufferage towards a truly meritocratic society.

What ? You're more insane than she is.

How, specifically, did she achieve each of those things in your staggeringly rose-tinted post ?

I've just had a quick gander at your recent post history & i'm not going to bother arguing this one; whatever arguments I advance, I dont think I'll change your mind. I think you're a bit of a leftie.

Recent posts tell me that you don't really see that much of a problem with terrorist violence, so long as you happen not to like the part of society the victim comes from; economic reality isnt much of a priority for you; outdated socialist doctrine is however rather agreeable to you. Have you considered re-locating to Zimbabwe?

[ClaphamGT3]

IforB said:

Blue Meanie said:

IforB said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

BOR said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

john_p said:

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

This is the ultimate testament to how radical what she did was; sure there will always be the nay-sayers, the serial malcontents & the vocal socialist minority splashing around in their own tank of bitter p*ss but the hard reality is that she brought prosperity hitherto unimaginable to the overwhelming majority of ordinary people in this country, social cohesion and mobility the like of which we haad never seen before and the largest move ever made since the introduction of universal sufferage towards a truly meritocratic society.

What ? You're more insane than she is.

How, specifically, did she achieve each of those things in your staggeringly rose-tinted post ?

I've just had a quick gander at your recent post history & i'm not going to bother arguing this one; whatever arguments I advance, I dont think I'll change your mind. I think you're a bit of a leftie.

Recent posts tell me that you don't really see that much of a problem with terrorist violence, so long as you happen not to like the part of society the victim comes from; economic reality isnt much of a priority for you; outdated socialist doctrine is however rather agreeable to you. Have you considered re-locating to Zimbabwe?

Oh god. Another poster who thinks that simply calling someone a "leftie" is a legitimate argument/insult.

The world isn't made up of the rabid left and right. Though on PH it seems that if you aren't to the right of Hitler, then you're immediately some sort of socialist lunatic.

Grow up.

It's an ad hominem, plain and simple. It addresses nothing that the person says.

Quite. I was always taught that when having a discussion you have a go at the argument and not the person. Go for the ball and not the player if you like.

It's a shame that this part of PH often seems to be so poorly educated when it comes to debating skills.

Based on the ethos of debating as I was taught and practiced it, I would have expected that the respondent to my argument would have posed a counter-argument. Instead his response was; insult/"prove it"/insult. That is when I stopped taking the debate (and him) seriously.

I don't know; maybe the art & form of formal debating has moved on in the last 18 years.......

[ClaphamGT3]

Shay HTFC said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

john_p said:

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

This is the ultimate testament to how radical what she did was; sure there will always be the nay-sayers, the serial malcontents & the vocal socialist minority splashing around in their own tank of bitter p*ss but the hard reality is that she brought prosperity hitherto unimaginable to the overwhelming majority of ordinary people in this country, social cohesion and mobility the like of which we haad never seen before and the largest move ever made since the introduction of universal sufferage towards a truly meritocratic society.

When I take a st I usually flush it down the toilet, not post it on Pistonheads like you seem to do.

Your glorified idol may have brought prosperity to parts of the South East and those lucky enough to be in a position to capitalise on her reforms, but for great swathes of the country she just pulled the rug from under their feet and left them in the gutter.

Rather than gradually shut down the unions and make an easy to handle transition from manual labour (which was always going to go abroad - I agree with it being simple economics), she decided to bring in the changes overnight pretty much and left thousands with nothing, millions with nothing when you consider the reverse effect of the oh so celebrated 'trickle down effect' (i.e. people stopped spending in local businesses so whole regional economies got shafted).

She brought in reforms that were needed, I agree, but she brought them in in an utterly inconsiderate and ill thought out way. There was nothing for these people after their jobs had gone. There was no transition or settling in period where people could adjust and make changes for a new way of life. No, she just pulled the plug and instantly ruined the livelihoods of millions and all the while she didn't even care. Her grand master plan didn't have time for the needs of those it affected, it was just concerned with the final result, whatever the cost.
It was akin to rescuing a trapped climber by just throwing him off the side of the mountain and telling him "well, it needed to be done" when he's lying on the valley bottom with 2 broken legs and a crushed skull.

She is hated for good reason. You say that people will say 'good riddance' when Winky dies, but hell, lots more people will be doing lots more than that when old Thatcher dies. I would be surprised if their weren't celebratory marches up and down the country.

Edited by Shay HTFC on Friday 8th October 14:46

In my childhood up to 1979, I knew:
disruption of critical services (electricity/Gas/refuse collection/Fire services)
economic paralysis, shortages of staple commodities (remember the queues for petrol in the late 70s?),
currency restrictions,
hyper-inflation,
personal taxation at up to 98% by a chancellor who said on national TV that he would "Squeeze the rich 'till their pips squeaked"
Union bosses more powerful in national politics than politicians, running the country like a mafia

After 1990 All of that had gone. In its place was an economy shaped to the needs of Britain moving forward, in its place was a society of individuals taking ownership for their own destiny and seeing a state that created opportunity rather than stifled it, in its place was a nation where people had access to a better standard of living, un-fettered by a meddlesome big-brother state than ever before.

Yes, there was pain along the way, yes in the short term there were losers as well as winners but don't ever insult the intelligence of those who actually remember the 70s by saying it wasnt worth it and that the Thatcher governments didnt make things so much better

Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Friday 8th October 18:43

[ClaphamGT3]

When it comes to Winky's send-off, putting him out with the bins would be too good for him

[ClaphamGT3]

When it comes to Winky's send-off, putting him out with the bins would be too good for him