Discussion
avinalarf said:
walm said:
Jesus - how big was the order!?
I would think it rare for that not to fill in a dropping stock!
Best of luck.
Buy price was 224.5 .I would think it rare for that not to fill in a dropping stock!
Best of luck.
I put in a KorF price of 224 for a fair chunk.
I was going to hold this share,subject to how it was performing.
R11ysf said:
contango said:
why you would want to buy in mid August is beyond me, the buyers now are those with a "need" to buy in a thin market.
QE baby! NEVER a bad time to buy!!But they say you can't time the market.
I would surmise that selling in a thin market is more problematic ?
walm said:
avinalarf said:
walm said:
Jesus - how big was the order!?
I would think it rare for that not to fill in a dropping stock!
Best of luck.
Buy price was 224.5 .I would think it rare for that not to fill in a dropping stock!
Best of luck.
I put in a KorF price of 224 for a fair chunk.
I was going to hold this share,subject to how it was performing.
Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
R11ysf said:
QE baby! NEVER a bad time to buy!!
We'll see if you have the same view in a few weeks 
. Buying Vix here too. Just Imo but market is acting tired. Overall your right though how is the market ever going to come down significantly whilst central banks are trying to eliminate the boom and bust cycle. sidicks said:
IMO you might just as well go to an on-line casino - it's effectively gambling / guesswork, rather than based on fundamentally research / knowledge, up against people who are far better researched and resourced than you.
Depends how your trading.To a certain extent use the analogy of a poker game. Firstly you need to maintain your chips at all cost in order to play the hands. So if your only ever risking a 1% loss of capital on any trade then no one trade can wipe you out.
You want to play only the strongest hands, be patient wait for the right setup and when you see it then play. If your simply taking a long/short at any arbitrary level stop loss or not, then yes I agree just plain gambling. But you want to wait until you have an edge if your technically minded wait for a pattern or significant level to lean against.
Once you've played your hand and the flop has been dealt do you have the ability to reassess, realise the setup has changed fold and minimise your loss. Move on and wait for the next setup.
With the algos and big players do you have the ability to see when they are bluffing you, countless times a stock will come down take out your stop and then run or it looks like the stock is going to break out everyone gets long the next day it reverses back down shakes out all the weak longs only to then go on a massive run.
It doesn't have to be pure gambling in fact the idea is calculated gambling.
avinalarf said:
Only down slightly.
Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
Ah - well I am fairly familiar with our South African friends, as it happens, and Elliott.Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
The drop on the revised bid is a little puzzling I have to agree.
I wonder whether it was purely technical as there will have been a bunch of event guys in there on Elliott's coat-tails hoping for a knock-out offer.
Clearly that didn't arrive so they may simply have had to adjust their timelines for a return dramatically (from a few weeks to a long drawn out, possibly through the courts, squeeze out process).
That delay kills the IRR on their positions so they simply sell out, causing selling pressure and a temporary drop in the stock, which is now recovering as you can see.
Not sure what possible long term hope you have here or indeed how your experience in the industry might help.
This is now a battle of wills between two big investors (the acquirer and Elliott).
The risk/reward on these always scares me.
If Elliott push too hard they could derail the whole thing.
I think that wholly unlikely but even if the bid is revised up another 5p in total, it's not a huge return considering where it might drop to if the deal fails.
Just my 2p!
walm said:
avinalarf said:
Only down slightly.
Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
Ah - well I am fairly familiar with our South African friends, as it happens, and Elliott.Coincidentally the shares are subject to a revised bid offer made yesterday afternoon.
My deal was placed on a feeling that the bid offer would move the share upward.
It didn't ,so I'm thinking about why my initial thoughts were wrong.
However I still feel that long term they are worth getting into.
The drop on the revised bid is a little puzzling I have to agree.
I wonder whether it was purely technical as there will have been a bunch of event guys in there on Elliott's coat-tails hoping for a knock-out offer.
Clearly that didn't arrive so they may simply have had to adjust their timelines for a return dramatically (from a few weeks to a long drawn out, possibly through the courts, squeeze out process).
That delay kills the IRR on their positions so they simply sell out, causing selling pressure and a temporary drop in the stock, which is now recovering as you can see.
Not sure what possible long term hope you have here or indeed how your experience in the industry might help.
This is now a battle of wills between two big investors (the acquirer and Elliott).
The risk/reward on these always scares me.
If Elliott push too hard they could derail the whole thing.
I think that wholly unlikely but even if the bid is revised up another 5p in total, it's not a huge return considering where it might drop to if the deal fails.
Just my 2p!
They are Brand leader in their segment of the retail market.
I'm a bit concerned how the declining £ against the $ will affect them,maybe ok for now if they've hedged but problematic for 2017.
Their margins will be compromised.
In retailing their is no middle ground,it's been like that for several years.
That's one reason that M&S are finding it so tough in clothing,that and trying to be all things to all people. They have a tough time on their hands to get their clothing offer right.
If you're a large group with hundreds of stores you have to have a strong brand and be very on the ball,with attractive price points,that is price points focussed on your core customer profile,hence the success of Zara.
So if you're a big player the mantra is ....position on the high street....focus on your customer....get your prices right.
avinalarf said:
And my 2p
They are Brand leader in their segment of the retail market.
I'm a bit concerned how the declining £ against the $ will affect them,maybe ok for now if they've hedged but problematic for 2017.
Their margins will be compromised.
In retailing their is no middle ground,it's been like that for several years.
That's one reason that M&S are finding it so tough in clothing,that and trying to be all things to all people. They have a tough time on their hands to get their clothing offer right.
If you're a large group with hundreds of stores you have to have a strong brand and be very on the ball,with attractive price points,that is price points focussed on your core customer profile,hence the success of Zara.
So if you're a big player the mantra is ....position on the high street....focus on your customer....get your prices right.
I agree completely but sadly that's all completely irrelevant to the share price.They are Brand leader in their segment of the retail market.
I'm a bit concerned how the declining £ against the $ will affect them,maybe ok for now if they've hedged but problematic for 2017.
Their margins will be compromised.
In retailing their is no middle ground,it's been like that for several years.
That's one reason that M&S are finding it so tough in clothing,that and trying to be all things to all people. They have a tough time on their hands to get their clothing offer right.
If you're a large group with hundreds of stores you have to have a strong brand and be very on the ball,with attractive price points,that is price points focussed on your core customer profile,hence the success of Zara.
So if you're a big player the mantra is ....position on the high street....focus on your customer....get your prices right.
They are subject to a bid - that's all that matters.
The board has agreed the bid, it's just a question of how much more Elliott can squeeze out of the acquirer.
R11ysf said:
QE baby! NEVER a bad time to buy!!
Ain't that the truth! I have been staggered how since 2008 it's been possible to accumulate so much value simply by "owning stuff". IMO governments and central banks (aided and abetted by banks) have completely destroyed the fundamental value of "money".
Ozzie Osmond said:
Ain't that the truth!
I have been staggered how since 2008 it's been possible to accumulate so much value simply by "owning stuff". IMO governments and central banks (aided and abetted by banks) have completely destroyed the fundamental value of "money".
Music has to stop at some point. I'm no perma bear but when it does it's going to be ugly as hell. It ends as soon as investors/ traders lose confidence in the central banks. I have been staggered how since 2008 it's been possible to accumulate so much value simply by "owning stuff". IMO governments and central banks (aided and abetted by banks) have completely destroyed the fundamental value of "money".
Ozzie Osmond said:
R11ysf said:
QE baby! NEVER a bad time to buy!!
Ain't that the truth! I have been staggered how since 2008 it's been possible to accumulate so much value simply by "owning stuff". IMO governments and central banks (aided and abetted by banks) have completely destroyed the fundamental value of "money".
QE.
Foreigners looking for a safe haven ,some with potentially suspect cash.
Ordinary folk desperate to get a return on their savings, getting into the stock market and buy to let.
Etc.etc.
All pushing up prices in a toppy market.
Edited by avinalarf on Saturday 13th August 14:06
twinturboz said:
Music has to stop at some point. I'm no perma bear but when it does it's going to be ugly as hell. It ends as soon as investors/ traders lose confidence in the central banks.
Aren't they already losing confidence in central banks? Currency wars can't go on forever see BoJ.... But hey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akBdQa55b4twinturboz said:
Music has to stop at some point. I'm no perma bear but when it does it's going to be ugly as hell. It ends as soon as investors/ traders lose confidence in the central banks.
Yes, I agree. My own belief is that there are two likely ways forward,A. Violent socialist revolution,
or
B. Substantial wealth taxes to rebalance the economic situation.
Since politicians are so closely in bed with the wealthy it's difficult to predict which way this one will flip.
Yeah I was only kidding, but as said above just look at every QE round. They have all had more and each time the stocks rally. Asset bubble upon asset bubble AND DESPITE saying they wouldn't race to the bottom it is exactly what they have done, but with such vast government debt there is no benefit in them popping the bubble as the debt is reducing by deflationary measures and borrowing long term debt at bugger all.
I can't be arsed to check 10yr Greek/Italian/Spanish debt but in the real world I'd want 6-8% a year to make it investable for me and no doubt it is sub 2 or sub 1.5%. Madness in the real world!
I can't be arsed to check 10yr Greek/Italian/Spanish debt but in the real world I'd want 6-8% a year to make it investable for me and no doubt it is sub 2 or sub 1.5%. Madness in the real world!
contango said:
Who are they???
The point of trading the market is that you only have to be better than average to survive.
For example, in recent memory, I have significantly added to assets in Aug '15, Jan '16 and in the days following Brexit on retracements, not bad timing I feel?
I started to scale in, did I buy the whole amount I would like to have bought (in hindsight), sadly not.
However I did buy enough to now show a reasonable return.
Whether you are trading or holding for the longer term, you need to take information in from the market to continually evaluate your trades. Never be in love with a position for the sake of it, if you evaluate it and still like it...buy more and move your stop up.
Your idea of pulling an order on a long term trade for a mild retracement, doesn't inspire much confidence in your conviction to the trade
QE is omnipresent, but the smart, easy money has been in Bloos & Spoos and of course "JBTFD"
(just - buy - the - f*^k1n6 - dip)
Are you planning on trimming any of your positions or are you holding out for longer?The point of trading the market is that you only have to be better than average to survive.
For example, in recent memory, I have significantly added to assets in Aug '15, Jan '16 and in the days following Brexit on retracements, not bad timing I feel?
I started to scale in, did I buy the whole amount I would like to have bought (in hindsight), sadly not.
However I did buy enough to now show a reasonable return.
Whether you are trading or holding for the longer term, you need to take information in from the market to continually evaluate your trades. Never be in love with a position for the sake of it, if you evaluate it and still like it...buy more and move your stop up.
Your idea of pulling an order on a long term trade for a mild retracement, doesn't inspire much confidence in your conviction to the trade
QE is omnipresent, but the smart, easy money has been in Bloos & Spoos and of course "JBTFD"
(just - buy - the - f*^k1n6 - dip)
Ozzie Osmond said:
Yes, I agree. My own belief is that there are two likely ways forward,
A. Violent socialist revolution,
or
B. Substantial wealth taxes to rebalance the economic situation.
Since politicians are so closely in bed with the wealthy it's difficult to predict which way this one will flip.
Of course there is always C. A sorry mix of muddling on / can-kicking / obfuscation continues long enough that the problems (at least in nominal terms....) eventually become more manageable.A. Violent socialist revolution,
or
B. Substantial wealth taxes to rebalance the economic situation.
Since politicians are so closely in bed with the wealthy it's difficult to predict which way this one will flip.
rustyuk said:
Yeah they are an easy read with good explanations for people starting outGassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff