Share tips thread
Discussion
ben_h100 said:
Thanks for the replies, I am new to this and at the moment its for a bit of fun more than anything, but I am willing to learn and do my own research. I'm going to setup a Halifax share dealing account in the morning.
Probably invest a couple of hundred in DES and see what happens...
DES is lots of fun, like a rollercoaster at the moment. Although I wouldnt like to have tens of thousands in there like some do! But its all relative to what you can afford to loose of course. I cant afford to loose much, what i can, is in DES!Probably invest a couple of hundred in DES and see what happens...
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. 
How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
I got caught out when I started up, and I expect a lot of beginners do. Make sure you take into account all associated costs before hitting the buy button.
Work out what price you need to break even. In fact, just read Naked Trader before starting.
It'll save the pain of doing all the sums after you've bought, and realising you've already lost most of your investment! Trust me, I know.
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
The penny has dropped - I now appreciate that what is in my investment 'account' isn't the amount I will be able to purchase.
Still going for it but with a bit more awareness.
Cheers for the replies, I must have come across as slightly naive..!
Need to let my mate know as well as he is doing calculations without taking the charges into account.
Still going for it but with a bit more awareness.
Cheers for the replies, I must have come across as slightly naive..!
Need to let my mate know as well as he is doing calculations without taking the charges into account.
ben_h100 said:
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
caduceus said:
don4l said:
ringram said:
ringram said:
150% return so far on SOLG for me.
Pity I only put a £1k gamble on it. Still it may well tank big time.
Damn, only now at 700% Pity I only put a £1k gamble on it. Still it may well tank big time.
When I made the comment, I thought that it would get back to about 12p inside a week or so. Obviously, I was wrong.
I cannot see why the price is still at 37p, but these small mining companies are strongly affected by rumour.
I'm currently sitting on shares in VGM which I purchased at 1.2p. (currently 3.6p
Some of these penny shares can be great, but the risk is very high.Anybody want to buy some Newcourt Group shares?
Don
--
ben_h100 said:
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
You are looking at a £6m company with a mid price of 2.25p.
It will almost certainly have a wide spread (bid/offer), which means that not only will you be buying at a price significant;y above 2.25p but your sell price at that point is significantly below. Even if it is just 0.5p that means you buy at 2.75 but would be selling at 1.75. Very crudely, on the spread alone you have lost 30%.
Then there is the cost of execution, which is likely to be £10 per side, so £20 to buy and sell.
At the precise point that you invest your £100 it has become worth £50.
As for this particulary stock I notice that the recent rise in price has directly followed a fund raising from 2 small private client brokers. Not institutions. The company has had to go to retail brokers to pay them a big fee to sell some stock to retail clients. Bad sign.
I think I saw that they raised 600k at 1p a share, so if a few weeks ago the stock was only worth 1p a share to get investors in and those investors added just 600k to the valuation, why is it now worth £3m more?
It is worth noting that after fund raisings the share price of small caps allways stays above the issue price for a period of time, almost as if it is being held up to satisfy those investors by some mystical and obviously completely unknown magical force between penny share stock brokers and market makers.
Secondly, you would need to know what their burn rate is in order to work out how long those new funds will last. Not long would be my guess.
I would guess that any stock holder is running a significant risk of being diluted within 12 months by another round of fund raising.
Obviously, there will be the usual punters ramping it on bulletin boards and the more mugs who buy in will innocently add their weight and more mugs will buy in and as per usual so many will claim to have made a fortune but the simple reality is that almost everyone will have just nudged themselves a little bit closer to guaranteeing that they spend their old age alone, stinking of piss in an NHS facility.
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
You are looking at a £6m company with a mid price of 2.25p.
It will almost certainly have a wide spread (bid/offer), which means that not only will you be buying at a price significant;y above 2.25p but your sell price at that point is significantly below. Even if it is just 0.5p that means you buy at 2.75 but would be selling at 1.75. Very crudely, on the spread alone you have lost 30%.
Then there is the cost of execution, which is likely to be £10 per side, so £20 to buy and sell.
At the precise point that you invest your £100 it has become worth £50.
As for this particulary stock I notice that the recent rise in price has directly followed a fund raising from 2 small private client brokers. Not institutions. The company has had to go to retail brokers to pay them a big fee to sell some stock to retail clients. Bad sign.
I think I saw that they raised 600k at 1p a share, so if a few weeks ago the stock was only worth 1p a share to get investors in and those investors added just 600k to the valuation, why is it now worth £3m more?
It is worth noting that after fund raisings the share price of small caps allways stays above the issue price for a period of time, almost as if it is being held up to satisfy those investors by some mystical and obviously completely unknown magical force between penny share stock brokers and market makers.
Secondly, you would need to know what their burn rate is in order to work out how long those new funds will last. Not long would be my guess.
I would guess that any stock holder is running a significant risk of being diluted within 12 months by another round of fund raising.
Obviously, there will be the usual punters ramping it on bulletin boards and the more mugs who buy in will innocently add their weight and more mugs will buy in and as per usual so many will claim to have made a fortune but the simple reality is that almost everyone will have just nudged themselves a little bit closer to guaranteeing that they spend their old age alone, stinking of piss in an NHS facility.
They have risen sharply but I would like the opinion of a profesional!
robsti said:
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
You are looking at a £6m company with a mid price of 2.25p.
It will almost certainly have a wide spread (bid/offer), which means that not only will you be buying at a price significant;y above 2.25p but your sell price at that point is significantly below. Even if it is just 0.5p that means you buy at 2.75 but would be selling at 1.75. Very crudely, on the spread alone you have lost 30%.
Then there is the cost of execution, which is likely to be £10 per side, so £20 to buy and sell.
At the precise point that you invest your £100 it has become worth £50.
As for this particulary stock I notice that the recent rise in price has directly followed a fund raising from 2 small private client brokers. Not institutions. The company has had to go to retail brokers to pay them a big fee to sell some stock to retail clients. Bad sign.
I think I saw that they raised 600k at 1p a share, so if a few weeks ago the stock was only worth 1p a share to get investors in and those investors added just 600k to the valuation, why is it now worth £3m more?
It is worth noting that after fund raisings the share price of small caps allways stays above the issue price for a period of time, almost as if it is being held up to satisfy those investors by some mystical and obviously completely unknown magical force between penny share stock brokers and market makers.
Secondly, you would need to know what their burn rate is in order to work out how long those new funds will last. Not long would be my guess.
I would guess that any stock holder is running a significant risk of being diluted within 12 months by another round of fund raising.
Obviously, there will be the usual punters ramping it on bulletin boards and the more mugs who buy in will innocently add their weight and more mugs will buy in and as per usual so many will claim to have made a fortune but the simple reality is that almost everyone will have just nudged themselves a little bit closer to guaranteeing that they spend their old age alone, stinking of piss in an NHS facility.
They have risen sharply but I would like the opinion of a profesional!
I really don't want to be a complete arse over this but these firms and the firms that operate around them are not taken seriously in the market place.
They are just fun gambles based around classic tales that get punters excited.
DonkeyApple said:
robsti said:
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
DonkeyApple said:
ben_h100 said:
Takes 24hrs for Halifax to complete registration - I'm buying £100 in KEFI.
With comm (assume £20 round trip), Stamp Duty and what is likely to be a gruesome spread on a 2.25p mid price I suspect you'll end up with a position more than 50% under water at the opening. How many succesful investors do you think go into a trade that loses them 50% just by buying in?
You are looking at a £6m company with a mid price of 2.25p.
It will almost certainly have a wide spread (bid/offer), which means that not only will you be buying at a price significant;y above 2.25p but your sell price at that point is significantly below. Even if it is just 0.5p that means you buy at 2.75 but would be selling at 1.75. Very crudely, on the spread alone you have lost 30%.
Then there is the cost of execution, which is likely to be £10 per side, so £20 to buy and sell.
At the precise point that you invest your £100 it has become worth £50.
As for this particulary stock I notice that the recent rise in price has directly followed a fund raising from 2 small private client brokers. Not institutions. The company has had to go to retail brokers to pay them a big fee to sell some stock to retail clients. Bad sign.
I think I saw that they raised 600k at 1p a share, so if a few weeks ago the stock was only worth 1p a share to get investors in and those investors added just 600k to the valuation, why is it now worth £3m more?
It is worth noting that after fund raisings the share price of small caps allways stays above the issue price for a period of time, almost as if it is being held up to satisfy those investors by some mystical and obviously completely unknown magical force between penny share stock brokers and market makers.
Secondly, you would need to know what their burn rate is in order to work out how long those new funds will last. Not long would be my guess.
I would guess that any stock holder is running a significant risk of being diluted within 12 months by another round of fund raising.
Obviously, there will be the usual punters ramping it on bulletin boards and the more mugs who buy in will innocently add their weight and more mugs will buy in and as per usual so many will claim to have made a fortune but the simple reality is that almost everyone will have just nudged themselves a little bit closer to guaranteeing that they spend their old age alone, stinking of piss in an NHS facility.
They have risen sharply but I would like the opinion of a profesional!
I really don't want to be a complete arse over this but these firms and the firms that operate around them are not taken seriously in the market place.
They are just fun gambles based around classic tales that get punters excited.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm not aware of any professional who would cover this market.
I really don't want to be a complete arse over this but these firms and the firms that operate around them are not taken seriously in the market place.
They are just fun gambles based around classic tales that get punters excited.
Surely you can't lump Encore in with KEFI, 377mcap as opposed to 6m. Genuinely interested in what you have to say about EO. good or bad. I really don't want to be a complete arse over this but these firms and the firms that operate around them are not taken seriously in the market place.
They are just fun gambles based around classic tales that get punters excited.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm not aware of any professional who would cover this market.
I really don't want to be a complete arse over this but these firms and the firms that operate around them are not taken seriously in the market place.
They are just fun gambles based around classic tales that get punters excited.
So where would you draw the line between fun gamble and a firm with serious investment potential? And based on what? In depth research or a quick browse of financials?I really don't want to be a complete arse over this but these firms and the firms that operate around them are not taken seriously in the market place.
They are just fun gambles based around classic tales that get punters excited.
Genuinely curious.
Donkey Apple is largely right. This can be no better than a gamble with dice loaded against you if you are not careful. However, the fun is spotting the 5% of companies/projects that have real potential, out of all the chaff. This is difficult to impossible to do based on just a casual look, although even a quick look will tell you what is definitely not worth considering.
In the mining sector there is money made, for example through private (unlisted) placements on early stage projects that subsequently list or are sold, for example to the Chinese. What differentiates the good from the bad is having enough sustaining capital, as it is a long slow road to development and you do not want to be diluted every few months after they burn through the cash, a well proven team (if they have made money once in a previous company they will do it again), and of course some ground with real licences with real potential. I imagine that oil is similar. Even with all this you may lose it all.
If you really want to have a go and don't want to lose your money then review the above points with whatever investment you consider. Bear in mind that you may well still lose it; as the saying goes these are not for widows and orphans.
In the mining sector there is money made, for example through private (unlisted) placements on early stage projects that subsequently list or are sold, for example to the Chinese. What differentiates the good from the bad is having enough sustaining capital, as it is a long slow road to development and you do not want to be diluted every few months after they burn through the cash, a well proven team (if they have made money once in a previous company they will do it again), and of course some ground with real licences with real potential. I imagine that oil is similar. Even with all this you may lose it all.
If you really want to have a go and don't want to lose your money then review the above points with whatever investment you consider. Bear in mind that you may well still lose it; as the saying goes these are not for widows and orphans.
Edited by Biggles111 on Tuesday 12th October 12:25
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