private school fees
Discussion
normal bloke said:
Perhaps I'm living on another planet as far as industry pay is concerned, but seriously....to be able to raise that sort of money, we'd have to sacrifice everything...annual family holiday, meals out, the football, a few beers at the weekend, reliable newish car every 4 years, and much much more. Paradoxically, I don't see my pretty ordinary mates going without and they can afford it, so what's going on?
Personally, while there are good advantages to private school (smaller class sizes, fewer disruptive pupils etc), I wouldn't recommend compromising on everything else in your family's life to the extent your post was suggesting.I'd consider supplementing their schooling with a private tutor, to help boost their performance. In my experience it is possible to do very well in a state school, but you just have to navigate the risks (mainly related to pupils who don't understand the importance of a good education and so try to drag you down to their level).
stuartmmcfc said:
Without turning this thread into a private vs state education debate as both have their pros and cons, it has to be said that,in my experience, privately educated pupils do significantly outperform state pupils at any interview stage.
It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
As a comprehensive educated oik with no dog in this fight, I agree with this. The public school kids all seem to have this air of confidence about them, and much better all round social skills. To be frank I find they also all tend to speak with a similar accent which I find grating, but that's my own prejudice.It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
For employment purposes, their confidence and soft skills are invaluable.
Zoon said:
You have completely missed the point. Your link refers to their academic performance at University. Even assuming that is accurate, it has no bearing on the fact that once out of Uni and in the workplace, their confidence and soft skills puts them at a distinct advantage.
Zoon said:
Whilst this only relates to university performance & is on a site that is pro-state schools..... it's results should not come as a surprise to anybody.Generally speaking a private school will get higher results at A level than the equivalent state school from the same pupil.
Two pupils with the same grades from a state & private school put in university where there is a level playing field & I would expect the equal achieving state school pupil to do better as actually they are better overall.
The difference private school makes is it might actually get the pupil to university where the state school may not in the first place.
Private school education is approximately 18mths ahead of the state school system. It really is a significant difference, you need to look at the significance of the overall education, for instance the two top schools (Eton, Harrow) will give a world class education. It is not a coincidence that most of them then go to Oxbridge. If money is no object then I would choose Eton for my boys every time. Barring that I would then consider something like Merchant Taylors, HAB's or John Lyon.
Eton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
Eton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
AndStilliRise said:
Private school education is approximately 18mths ahead of the state school system.
This article suggests 2 years.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/12174166/Priv...
However this paragraph seemed particularly relevant.
"Without adjusting for background, private school pupils gained GCSE results nearly two grades higher per subject, which could mean an A grade rather than a C grade.
After taking into account factors including academic potential, family wealth and gender the difference fell to about 0.64 of a grade - although researchers warned this was an estimate."
AndStilliRise said:
Private school education is approximately 18mths ahead of the state school system. It really is a significant difference, you need to look at the significance of the overall education, for instance the two top schools (Eton, Harrow) will give a world class education. It is not a coincidence that most of them then go to Oxbridge. If money is no object then I would choose Eton for my boys every time. Barring that I would then consider something like Merchant Taylors, HAB's or John Lyon.
Eton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
Eton is about £36k per annum, unless you're a scholar, in which case, they can be significantly less. My nephew is currently a Kings Scholar and his fees are about 60% of the 'full' amountEton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
Zoon said:
stuartmmcfc said:
and have a lot more experience of life in general.
What a load of nonsense.While some of these maybe available in State schools, It relies on keen commitment of a member of staff. If a member of staff isn't interested then it doesn't happen as often it's unpaid work.
The opportunities are endless and they are a huge part of school life, not an extra,
As a comprehensive boy with lots of friends whose kids go to the local school, not much of this was available to me at school and it's not all available to my friends kids.
it's this that leads to more experience of life.
HTH
AndStilliRise said:
Private school education is approximately 18mths ahead of the state school system. It really is a significant difference, you need to look at the significance of the overall education, for instance the two top schools (Eton, Harrow) will give a world class education. It is not a coincidence that most of them then go to Oxbridge. If money is no object then I would choose Eton for my boys every time. Barring that I would then consider something like Merchant Taylors, HAB's or John Lyon.
Eton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
Whilst going off topic I'm interested to know your criteria for ranking those schools. They certainly are not top of the results tables. Yes they have the names but what other evidence do you have for them being the best?? Eton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
stuartmmcfc said:
Zoon said:
stuartmmcfc said:
and have a lot more experience of life in general.
What a load of nonsense.While some of these maybe available in State schools, It relies on keen commitment of a member of staff. If a member of staff isn't interested then it doesn't happen as often it's unpaid work.
The opportunities are endless and they are a huge part of school life, not an extra,
As a comprehensive boy with lots of friends whose kids go to the local school, not much of this was available to me at school and it's not all available to my friends kids.
it's this that leads to more experience of life.
HTH
Plus, from my observation, the main difference is the consistency of high expectation. The parents all want their children to thrive, and therefore the students all want to achieve their full potential.
It isn't "cool" to be a dullard at the back of the class messing about and being generally disruptive (like it was when I went to school back in the day).
I went to a state school and my girlfriend a private school and I have family members who went to both, so i'm talking from experience and not hearsay and I can say that I will do everything I can to ensure my children can get privately educated.
Naturally, I'm smarter than she is, yet she earns considerably more than me due to her education. It is the whole experience that you pay for. She has taught me so much that has helped me enormously when it comes to work and generally succeeding in life. In my opinion you can get the best out of a person by sending them to private school.
My grandma and her siblings were all privately educated and all have done well. My mother attended a grammar school and her sisters failed to get a place. The difference in them is astonishing when it comes to life skills.
Naturally, I'm smarter than she is, yet she earns considerably more than me due to her education. It is the whole experience that you pay for. She has taught me so much that has helped me enormously when it comes to work and generally succeeding in life. In my opinion you can get the best out of a person by sending them to private school.
My grandma and her siblings were all privately educated and all have done well. My mother attended a grammar school and her sisters failed to get a place. The difference in them is astonishing when it comes to life skills.
GT03ROB said:
AndStilliRise said:
Private school education is approximately 18mths ahead of the state school system. It really is a significant difference, you need to look at the significance of the overall education, for instance the two top schools (Eton, Harrow) will give a world class education. It is not a coincidence that most of them then go to Oxbridge. If money is no object then I would choose Eton for my boys every time. Barring that I would then consider something like Merchant Taylors, HAB's or John Lyon.
Eton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
Whilst going off topic I'm interested to know your criteria for ranking those schools. They certainly are not top of the results tables. Yes they have the names but what other evidence do you have for them being the best?? Eton is 60k per year.
Harrow is 30k per year.
MTS is 15k per year.
But would then give your boys the best education money can buy. The question is of course is how much are you willing to pay and sacrifice? People like Lewis Hamilton had dads who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay for their kids karting which is an amazing sacrifice.
My oldest son managed to get into QE Barnet which is one of the best selective grammar schools in the country, if he had not then i would have had to choose one of the previously listed privates (<15k per year) and had to make the relative sacrifices to pay for it.
Hope this helps.
chrisb92 said:
I went to a state school and my girlfriend a private school and I have family members who went to both, so i'm talking from experience and not hearsay and I can say that I will do everything I can to ensure my children can get privately educated.
Naturally, I'm smarter than she is, yet she earns considerably more than me due to her education. It is the whole experience that you pay for. She has taught me so much that has helped me enormously when it comes to work and generally succeeding in life. In my opinion you can get the best out of a person by sending them to private school.
My grandma and her siblings were all privately educated and all have done well. My mother attended a grammar school and her sisters failed to get a place. The difference in them is astonishing when it comes to life skills.
Yes as a comprehensive, working class oik , I completely agree. I have worked hard, done ok, and have much to be grateful for. I despise the politics of envy. However, if I'm honest, I have always envied the public school kids a bit, they really do have the soft skills and confidence which state schools don't even understand, let alone instil.Naturally, I'm smarter than she is, yet she earns considerably more than me due to her education. It is the whole experience that you pay for. She has taught me so much that has helped me enormously when it comes to work and generally succeeding in life. In my opinion you can get the best out of a person by sending them to private school.
My grandma and her siblings were all privately educated and all have done well. My mother attended a grammar school and her sisters failed to get a place. The difference in them is astonishing when it comes to life skills.
The people who object to public schools do so out of political ideology, there is no doubt however that those attending get a massive advantage. If parents can afford it, to me it would be a no brainer.
Another few ruses to consider normalbloke:
Private schools are businesses, and think like businesses - it's all negotiable. Go and negotiate with the bursar and the Head. I have seen 10%-20% come off just for asking and pleading hardship. I know a guy who sent five children (!) through one school, negotiating a better deal each time, and if you add up the discounts he effectively got the last one free.
If you have funds in savings, ask for a discount for paying up front, You save two ways there, as school fees inflation has hugely outstripped RPI or CPI over the past ten years, so saving (say) 10% up front as well as dodging two or three years of price increases of between 5% and 10% makes a big difference.
Some schools will let you spread the payments out even beyond when the children leave - you send them for 8 years, but pay over 10.
Go through the selection process, put your kids up for the bursaries (perhaps 10% off) and scholarships (anything from nothing to full fees paid). Once you've done all that, even if they don't get any awards, the school knows you're keen, and has a good view on the ability of your kids, so a negotiation can be easier.
What does Mrs normalbloke do? If she is able to, get her to apply for every admin / support staff role that comes up at the school, or even train as a teacher! Staff children can get generous discounts. Put yourself up as a governer, even.
Hope that helps.
Private schools are businesses, and think like businesses - it's all negotiable. Go and negotiate with the bursar and the Head. I have seen 10%-20% come off just for asking and pleading hardship. I know a guy who sent five children (!) through one school, negotiating a better deal each time, and if you add up the discounts he effectively got the last one free.
If you have funds in savings, ask for a discount for paying up front, You save two ways there, as school fees inflation has hugely outstripped RPI or CPI over the past ten years, so saving (say) 10% up front as well as dodging two or three years of price increases of between 5% and 10% makes a big difference.
Some schools will let you spread the payments out even beyond when the children leave - you send them for 8 years, but pay over 10.
Go through the selection process, put your kids up for the bursaries (perhaps 10% off) and scholarships (anything from nothing to full fees paid). Once you've done all that, even if they don't get any awards, the school knows you're keen, and has a good view on the ability of your kids, so a negotiation can be easier.
What does Mrs normalbloke do? If she is able to, get her to apply for every admin / support staff role that comes up at the school, or even train as a teacher! Staff children can get generous discounts. Put yourself up as a governer, even.
Hope that helps.
normal bloke said:
However after a few minutes with a pen and a calculator, there is one over riding dilemma that I don't think I'll be able to crack...
HOW THE f
k DO PEOPLE AFFORD IT?????
One potential answer relates to the mortgage costs. HOW THE f
k DO PEOPLE AFFORD IT?????Many people are spending £2000 to £3000+ per month on mortgage repayments.
Once that is cleared it makes paying school fees much easier.
I have 2 of my 3 at private school. All my ex wife's idea and she wanted no3 to go as well.
It has virtually brought us to our knees financially.
My daughter has done really well out of it by going to a less well known small girls school and has been mainly financed by her grandmother.
My boy has not done well at all at a more exclusive boys school and we have now pulled him out as the bullying and favouritism shown by staff to their sports stars is frankly ridiculous. Plus of course, the eye watering cost.
I have managed to convince my ex that he goes state along with his little brother in Sept. I just hope it goes well.
To sound snobbish, I thought his private school would surround him with well behaved go getting kids but on meeting many of the parents, you'd wonder how they could possibly afford it. Yep, they are working their arses off but their kids are little sods.
So in our case it has worked for my daughter but not for my son. I think my youngest would have excelled at private school but sadly we do not have a money tree.
Good luck OP.
It has virtually brought us to our knees financially.
My daughter has done really well out of it by going to a less well known small girls school and has been mainly financed by her grandmother.
My boy has not done well at all at a more exclusive boys school and we have now pulled him out as the bullying and favouritism shown by staff to their sports stars is frankly ridiculous. Plus of course, the eye watering cost.
I have managed to convince my ex that he goes state along with his little brother in Sept. I just hope it goes well.
To sound snobbish, I thought his private school would surround him with well behaved go getting kids but on meeting many of the parents, you'd wonder how they could possibly afford it. Yep, they are working their arses off but their kids are little sods.
So in our case it has worked for my daughter but not for my son. I think my youngest would have excelled at private school but sadly we do not have a money tree.
Good luck OP.
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