Financed lifestyles
Discussion
Zigster said:
Because ... ?
Because it's an extremely conservative and boring approach to life.To better one's self usually requires some degree of financial risk, whether that's investing in a business, property or even further education.
I've invested in ISAs/SIPPs/property to a reasonable degree, my only regrets are probably not investing *less* and actually doing more in life, such as competing properly in Motorsport or trying out some other business ideas.
Yes be somewhat prudent, but also enjoy spending money to live a fulfilling and enjoyable life while you are still young.
That's quite different from what you said before:
Although living a financed lifestyle (i.e. leasing/PCP/whatever cars and having the latest phone) is a pretty uninspiring concept of how to "better one's self". Taking financial risk to invest is a somewhat different proposition but isn't really what we're thinking of here when talking about financed lifestyles.
Olivera said:
What a lot of catch-all arbitrary s
te 
It turns out, when I asked you to clarify, that you're agreeing with me? te Although living a financed lifestyle (i.e. leasing/PCP/whatever cars and having the latest phone) is a pretty uninspiring concept of how to "better one's self". Taking financial risk to invest is a somewhat different proposition but isn't really what we're thinking of here when talking about financed lifestyles.
wormus said:
Not sure how old you are but you sound like a nipper. Life on benefits is not something to settle for as it’s a miserable existence. Some people are born prudent and middle aged whilst it takes slightly longer with others for the penny to drop. Not much fun realising at 45 that you aren’t as good as you were and have little provision for retirement. I’m doing all I can to catch up but I wish I’d started saving a little earlier.
I'm in my thirties. I do have a pension btw, well I have 4 actually, one from every job I've had since they became mandatory. My current employer's contributions are 8% compared to 3% from my previous employer, I opted in for salary sacrifice, tried to be interested in the various sessions with pension advisors. I would never settle for a life on benefits, but if you handed me 30k now I would not put it away or use it for a housing deposit, I would do something to try and create an opportunity for myself, be that training, a business venture or some form of speculative investment (i.e. classic car resale).Zigster said:
It turns out, when I asked you to clarify, that you're agreeing with me?
I would say try and do both - invest (albeit with some degree of risk) in your future, *and* spend money (perhaps even financed) on things that you enjoy.A strictly financially prudent, boring and risk averse strategy is conducive to neither.
Olivera said:
I would say try and do both - invest (albeit with some degree of risk) in your future, *and* spend money (perhaps even financed) on things that you enjoy.
A strictly financially prudent, boring and risk averse strategy is conducive to neither.
Obviously very different from what I said ... A strictly financially prudent, boring and risk averse strategy is conducive to neither.
Zigster said:
Saving for retirement should just be about smoothing your lifetime income so that you don't have a big step-change in lifestyle at retirement - defer some expenditure now so that you can spend it in retirement instead.
Extremes are usually a bad thing. Don't save so much pre-retirement that you don't have enough to live on now but have a fantastic income in retirement; don't save so little now that you can't afford to retire when you want to (or when it is forced on you) or can't afford to continue to enjoy life in retirement.
Extremes are usually a bad thing. Don't save so much pre-retirement that you don't have enough to live on now but have a fantastic income in retirement; don't save so little now that you can't afford to retire when you want to (or when it is forced on you) or can't afford to continue to enjoy life in retirement.
Zigster said:
Obviously very different from what I said ...
No, it is quite different. You stated:"the sensible thing to do is only commit to spend future income if you have no real alternative (e.g. a mortgage ..)"
I.e. dont finance or borrow for anything but a mortgage. I'm saying it's fine to spend a (reasonable) amount of future money for a variety of reasons, including pure enjoyment.
red_slr said:
Extract: "in Boris Johnson's first speech as prime minister he pledged to "fix the crisis". In a world where talk is cheap, BJ is straight outta
Here’s the thing about debt. The right amount of debt facilitates wealth creation. The wrong amount drives poverty and amplifies the wealth divide and leads to all the social ills that have blighted all human societies that have failed to regulate and balance debt correctly.
We had regulation in place to prevent the asset inflation and excess spending that destroys a society and this has been systematically removed to specifically create asset inflation and excess spending so everyone feels wealthier but in reality most are getting poorer as the expanding wealth divide moves them further and further away from each successive step up.
That’s the big macro economic stuff out the way. Basically, debt is good if accessed in the right way but phenomenally toxic and lethal if not and destroys lives and societies.
Down at our level, if you already live at the bottom end of society then spend and borrow away. There is no massive downside. When you’ve borrowed too much you just default and you are already living the level of lifestyle that you will end up at so there just isn’t much downside.
If you live at the top end of society and you’ve taken care of your main obligations such as property, pension, children’s education etc etc then the money that you have left over each month can be pissed away and if you want to piss it away on financing toys then go for it as there just isn’t any risk or destruction of wealth. You are simply pissing away your excess income after taking care of everything else, the way you want to.
It’s the middle group that is at risk. And the risk is where people are choosing either to save or to fund debt to procure a lifestyle today but without those savings they won’t be able to maintain a lifestyle post employment anywhere near the same level. The problem is that this social group, the middle, is today very large and they will probably make an awful racket when they get retired from employment in their 50s and don’t have any savings to replicate that employer income to keep the merry go round moving.
It’s entirely their choice to destroy their future prospects to have everything now but the problem is that they really are going to kick off when the lifestyle change lands on their doorstep and demand that everyone else bails them out as they want to keep up their working lifestyle. For them it’s a deal with the devil.
At the same time our governments have deliberately and insidiously created this environment by removing key consumer regulations. It inflates house prices so people feel richer and spend more, it increase tax receipts as the whole of society spends more than it earns and most insidious of all, it synthesises wage inflation for the poorest which supercharges the growth of the wealth divide to damaging levels.
We had regulation in place to prevent the asset inflation and excess spending that destroys a society and this has been systematically removed to specifically create asset inflation and excess spending so everyone feels wealthier but in reality most are getting poorer as the expanding wealth divide moves them further and further away from each successive step up.
That’s the big macro economic stuff out the way. Basically, debt is good if accessed in the right way but phenomenally toxic and lethal if not and destroys lives and societies.
Down at our level, if you already live at the bottom end of society then spend and borrow away. There is no massive downside. When you’ve borrowed too much you just default and you are already living the level of lifestyle that you will end up at so there just isn’t much downside.
If you live at the top end of society and you’ve taken care of your main obligations such as property, pension, children’s education etc etc then the money that you have left over each month can be pissed away and if you want to piss it away on financing toys then go for it as there just isn’t any risk or destruction of wealth. You are simply pissing away your excess income after taking care of everything else, the way you want to.
It’s the middle group that is at risk. And the risk is where people are choosing either to save or to fund debt to procure a lifestyle today but without those savings they won’t be able to maintain a lifestyle post employment anywhere near the same level. The problem is that this social group, the middle, is today very large and they will probably make an awful racket when they get retired from employment in their 50s and don’t have any savings to replicate that employer income to keep the merry go round moving.
It’s entirely their choice to destroy their future prospects to have everything now but the problem is that they really are going to kick off when the lifestyle change lands on their doorstep and demand that everyone else bails them out as they want to keep up their working lifestyle. For them it’s a deal with the devil.
At the same time our governments have deliberately and insidiously created this environment by removing key consumer regulations. It inflates house prices so people feel richer and spend more, it increase tax receipts as the whole of society spends more than it earns and most insidious of all, it synthesises wage inflation for the poorest which supercharges the growth of the wealth divide to damaging levels.
red_slr said:
Carpenter earns £50k a year in wales and is worried about money. Send the missus to work then. Are supposed to feel concern for him?red_slr said:
Must admit I did raise an eyebrow at that one. I can only assume that's his turn over...?
A half decent joiner will be charging himself out at £250 a day easily and if he’s any kind of buisiness man he will be doubling up on materials so £50k a year is not out of the question and if he has a couple of men then...... Export56 said:
Apart from houses( now paid off) and my first car I have never had a loan. I can't stand the thought of paying interest as lost money. I even buy my phone outright as it saved me 170 £ compared to contract. Every pound in interest is one less in my pension.
I very much doubt this.Is this for real or is it just people coming onto paint a picture of their perfect lives which arent really perfect.
Daverb said:
Export56 said:
Apart from houses( now paid off) and my first car I have never had a loan. I can't stand the thought of paying interest as lost money. I even buy my phone outright as it saved me 170 £ compared to contract. Every pound in interest is one less in my pension.
I very much doubt this.Is this for real or is it just people coming onto paint a picture of their perfect lives which arent really perfect.
Daverb said:
Export56 said:
Apart from houses( now paid off) and my first car I have never had a loan. I can't stand the thought of paying interest as lost money. I even buy my phone outright as it saved me 170 £ compared to contract. Every pound in interest is one less in my pension.
I very much doubt this.Is this for real or is it just people coming onto paint a picture of their perfect lives which arent really perfect.
I hats actually interesting is the use of the word ‘perfect’ as if there is an assumption that debt is evil?
Badda said:
BobSaunders said:
Mortgage and only a car PCP loan. Everything else is paid in cash (via a credit card for protection).
So everything is borrowed. Ok. Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff