European Union - Ramifications

[rsbmw]

grumbledoak said:

12 points and rising just before Jo Cox's murder:
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/eu-refere...

but don't let reality obscure your views.

Pff, you can come up with statistics to prove anything, 80% of all people know that

[blueg33]

wormus said:

Well it's going to happen, I voted to leave and I'm glad our departure is imminent as I believe still that we will be better off in the long term as a result. We won't go under as the wealthy have too much invested already to let it happen. Money like energy is never destroyed, it's just moves from one place to another.

Edited by wormus on Wednesday 3rd August 18:09

Yes. It looks like its moving away from the uk

[SELON]

Simpo Two said:

SELON said:

This wasn't an election. There's no going back, not even after 13 years. Age is particualtly relevant as it will take around 10 years for all this to unfold and a lot of people that didn't even get a chance to vote will be having to live with the consequences longest.

Of course, it's going to be a land of milk and honey, so they will have a lifetime to thank us for this.

The EU was a stealth cancer. Sadly many Britons have never lived in a country that isn't told what to do by others. They've never known anything else.

And how about the consequences of staying in? Did you consider those? How many bankrupt countries do you want your taxes to pay for? (as well as the gravy train of self-serving stuffed shirts all making rules for you to obey?). EEC was what we voted for, not a monstrous EU.

I don't particularly want my taxes to pay for anyone or any country that is bankrupt but we do. It's called society and the greater good, and we have been doing it a long time for the UK. Which, by the way, we were in the heyday of the 60s and going into the 70s when we were doing a stellar job of destroying the country all ourselves. Maybe your experiences were different to mine.

As for no one telling us what to do...No one told us what to do back in the good ol' days (except Suez, the Cod War - we couldn't even beat Iceland back then, US nuclear missles placed on UK soil, etc etc etc etc etc). Congratulations on your reaching your dotage, as you'd have to be around 94 years old now if you lived in the UK where no one told us what to do.

On topic of ramifications of leaving the EU: those evil laws from the EU that oppress us all with. I've heard about these. Which ones are we not going to recreate once we've rolled everything back.

You could save us from years of law making and billions in lawyer fees if you could just tell us which ones are the evil and bad ones. Any examples? (please don't suggest Human Rights).

[Jockman]

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

We have no information on who was doing the search - Leavers or Remainers.

Considering data about education of leave voters we both know the answer, you're just scared to admit it in front of the mirror.

Sooo...... Remain voters voted Remain not because they simply fancied the status quo but because they had an in depth knowledge of how the EU works?

Leave voters voted leave because they were stupid and ignorant?

Is that seriously your point?

[phib]

We have several customers who voted for leave not realising the impact it would have in the following two years (i.e currency fluctuation is the largest impact on them as they import raw materials and finished goods from Europe)

These are all £10-20m businesses who cant hedge, 2 of them are already having problems and another 5 wont last 18 months if currency stays where it is.

Sometimes people just don't get it and UK customers (Tesco,Sainsburys etc etc) wont take price increases and it leaves them high and dry

Phib

[Behemoth]

Jockman said:

Remain voters voted Remain not because they simply fancied the status quo but because they had an in depth knowledge of how the EU works?

Leave voters voted leave because they were stupid and ignorant?

I think that's a bit harsh but pretty well put

[Jockman]

Behemoth said:

Jockman said:

Remain voters voted Remain not because they simply fancied the status quo but because they had an in depth knowledge of how the EU works?

Leave voters voted leave because they were stupid and ignorant?

I think that's a bit harsh but pretty well put

[Jockman]

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

We have no information on who was doing the search - Leavers or Remainers.

Considering data about education of leave voters we both know the answer, you're just scared to admit it in front of the mirror.

Sooo...... Remain voters voted Remain not because they simply fancied the status quo but because they had an in depth knowledge of how the EU works?
Leave voters voted leave because they were stupid and ignorant?

Is that seriously your point?

It is a fact.

Difficult to argue with that kind of logic. All the best.

[WinstonWolf]

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

We have no information on who was doing the search - Leavers or Remainers.

Considering data about education of leave voters we both know the answer, you're just scared to admit it in front of the mirror.

Sooo...... Remain voters voted Remain not because they simply fancied the status quo but because they had an in depth knowledge of how the EU works?
Leave voters voted leave because they were stupid and ignorant?

Is that seriously your point?

It is a fact.

I bet you also think all black people are bad...

[WinstonWolf]

KimJongHealthy said:

WinstonWolf said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

We have no information on who was doing the search - Leavers or Remainers.

Considering data about education of leave voters we both know the answer, you're just scared to admit it in front of the mirror.

Sooo...... Remain voters voted Remain not because they simply fancied the status quo but because they had an in depth knowledge of how the EU works?
Leave voters voted leave because they were stupid and ignorant?

Is that seriously your point?

It is a fact.

I bet you also think all black people are bad...

You're the one who wanted to stop those damn immigrants coming here, not me.

I didn't, but let's face it lumping millions of people in a single pot makes you a massive bigot.

[WinstonWolf]

KimJongHealthy said:

WinstonWolf said:

KimJongHealthy said:

WinstonWolf said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Jockman said:

We have no information on who was doing the search - Leavers or Remainers.

Considering data about education of leave voters we both know the answer, you're just scared to admit it in front of the mirror.

Sooo...... Remain voters voted Remain not because they simply fancied the status quo but because they had an in depth knowledge of how the EU works?
Leave voters voted leave because they were stupid and ignorant?

Is that seriously your point?

It is a fact.

I bet you also think all black people are bad...

You're the one who wanted to stop those damn immigrants coming here, not me.

I didn't, but let's face it lumping millions of people in a single pot makes you a massive bigot.

I don't. Numbers and facts do, two things that leavers completely ignored before voting.

There you go again... You are bigoted, you just can't see it.

[sealtt]

PoleDriver said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

KimJongHealthy said:

One of the dumbest arguments in the discussion is the one about "choosing your own leaders, not someone in the EU parliament". Has anyone voted for Theresa May? No? Wait, I thought you'll get to chose your own leaders now?

Yes, that's the real classic.

The turkeys voted for Christmas and lunch-time is rapidly approaching.

We voted to put the Tory party in Government, the Tory party voted to put Theresa May in the lead position!

Imagining....

We voted to put the Tory party in Government, the Tory party voted to put Theresa May in the lead position and Theresa May decided to keep us in the EU.

[PoleDriver]

sealtt said:

Imagining....

We voted to put the Tory party in Government, the Tory party voted to put Theresa May in the lead position and Theresa May has pledged to comply with the wishes of the winning side of the vote!.

FTFY

[Behemoth]

PoleDriver said:

sealtt said:

and Theresa May has pledged to comply with the wishes of the winning side of the vote!.

FTFY

Now let's see. Politicians and their pledges I wonder if history might be able to tell us something Maybe if it was chiselled into a slab of limestone it would work? They could call it the May(be) Stone.

[SELON]

Back to topic of Ramifications of leaving EU: It's interesting that no one has batted an eyelid at another £70billion of borrowing (which is going to rocket a lot more when the budget is announced) and an expected hit to the economy of around 2.5% (for starters).

So that fact that we are all going to be worse off at least for the next 5 years, seems to be a given now.

Therefore the only thing that remains is: Does anyone actually know what laws, that the EU forced upon us, are going to change as a result of leaving the EU? I am genuinely interested to understand this as it was the fundamental 'positive' point of the referendum.

I take it as a given that we are going to ditch Human Rights. But what else?
Consumer protection laws?

Genuinely interested to hear what laws people think/ expect /hope to change.

[sealtt]

SELON said:

Back to topic of Ramifications of leaving EU: It's interesting that no one has batted an eyelid at another £70billion of borrowing (which is going to rocket a lot more when the budget is announced) and an expected hit to the economy of around 2.5% (for starters).

So that fact that we are all going to be worse off at least for the next 5 years, seems to be a given now.

Therefore the only thing that remains is: Does anyone actually know what laws, that the EU forced upon us, are going to change as a result of leaving the EU? I am genuinely interested to understand this as it was the fundamental 'positive' point of the referendum.

I take it as a given that we are going to ditch Human Rights. But what else?
Consumer protection laws?

Genuinely interested to hear what laws people think/ expect /hope to change.

In general I take it as more of a means to prevent further European integration, rather than to rewind what's already been done (other than on matters of immigration.).

[mph1977]

SELON said:

<snip>
Therefore the only thing that remains is: Does anyone actually know what laws, that the EU forced upon us, are going to change as a result of leaving the EU? I am genuinely interested to understand this as it was the fundamental 'positive' point of the referendum.

I take it as a given that we are going to ditch Human Rights. But what else?
Consumer protection laws?

Genuinely interested to hear what laws people think/ expect /hope to change.

the ECHR is not an EU body

re-writing human rights legislation is not really an EU- centric matter it;s more about the fact the Blair era drafting of the HRA was influenced by the views and interests of the firends of the Blairs who made very good legal aid money with human rights actions

I don't see any of the actual workplace health and safety legislation being changed - as the science behind it is good - certainly the manual handling / work related upper limb disorder / display screen stuff. PUWER just codifies training etc as a mandatory part of working life without creating loads of speciic legislation and association enforcement bodies ( imagine a world where fork truck licences were administered by the DSA and DVLA and site shunting required the relevant LGV licence etc, imagine if you will also where doing anything remotely technical with tools was like the high speed / power abrasive wheels stuff) )

Zealotry and unnecessary use of PPE etc is more down insurers and the feckwittery of some of the people in H+S positions who've been put there with a IOSH general certificate becasue it was felt initially this was a place they posed less of a threat to operations of the organisation while still retaining their 'manager' / ' salaried staff' status ...

Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 4th August 14:31

[SELON]

sealtt said:

SELON said:

Back to topic of Ramifications of leaving EU: It's interesting that no one has batted an eyelid at another £70billion of borrowing (which is going to rocket a lot more when the budget is announced) and an expected hit to the economy of around 2.5% (for starters).

So that fact that we are all going to be worse off at least for the next 5 years, seems to be a given now.

Therefore the only thing that remains is: Does anyone actually know what laws, that the EU forced upon us, are going to change as a result of leaving the EU? I am genuinely interested to understand this as it was the fundamental 'positive' point of the referendum.

I take it as a given that we are going to ditch Human Rights. But what else?
Consumer protection laws?

Genuinely interested to hear what laws people think/ expect /hope to change.

In general I take it as more of a means to prevent further European integration, rather than to rewind what's already been done (other than on matters of immigration.).

Yes. I understood that to specially be more of a choice of immigrants but with no significant change in the overall number. Less EU and more non-EU immigration seemed to be the desire (from both parts of the Leave Leadership).

But I do recall there being lots of noise around EU laws and control.

[SELON]

mph1977 said:

SELON said:

<snip>
Therefore the only thing that remains is: Does anyone actually know what laws, that the EU forced upon us, are going to change as a result of leaving the EU? I am genuinely interested to understand this as it was the fundamental 'positive' point of the referendum.

I take it as a given that we are going to ditch Human Rights. But what else?
Consumer protection laws?

Genuinely interested to hear what laws people think/ expect /hope to change.

the ECHR is not an EU body

re-writing human rights legislation is not really an EU- centric matter it;s more about the fact the Blair era drafting of the HRA was influenced by the views and interests of the firends of the Blairs who made very good legal aid money with human rights actions

I don't see any of the actual workplace health and safety legislation being changed - as the science behind it is good - certainly the manual handling / work related upper limb disorder / display screen stuff.

Zealotry and unnecessary use of PPE etc is more down insurers and the feckwittery of some of the people in H+S positions who've been put there with a IOSH general certificate becasue it was felt initially this was a place they posed less of a threat to operations of the organisation while still retaining their 'manager' / ' salaried staff' status ...

That makes sense. I was trying to start with some suggestions based on what I'd heard in the campaign. Making our Supreme Court the 'supreme' court of the land was one of those things bandied around.

[Jockman]

KimJongHealthy said:

But it's already been agreed that immigration will remain if Britain wants to follow Norway and to be a part of EEC, with all the payments and no say on its policies.

So what exactly are we gaining here?

Nothing is agreed. Everything is being negotiated. It will be messy.

Norway got the Norway Deal, Switzerland got the Swiss Deal. The UK will negotiate a UK Deal.