Crypto Currency Thread

[anonymous-user]

i owned 50k XRP a few years back...

I never expected such a rise and always thought it would burst, looking at quick cash really.

[g4ry13]

PH4555 said:

jammy-git said:

I don't get why everyone thinks everyone wants/needs privacy around their money. And even if they did, that all comes crashing down when HMRC comes knocking at your door.

How is HMRC going to know anything about my theoretical privacy coin holdings when I've bought and sold them on a P2P DEX?

What's the answer when they see your bank account has got an extra few hundred grand sitting in it and are interested about the source of funds?

[PH4555]

g4ry13 said:

PH4555 said:

jammy-git said:

I don't get why everyone thinks everyone wants/needs privacy around their money. And even if they did, that all comes crashing down when HMRC comes knocking at your door.

How is HMRC going to know anything about my theoretical privacy coin holdings when I've bought and sold them on a P2P DEX?

What's the answer when they see your bank account has got an extra few hundred grand sitting in it and are interested about the source of funds?

We've had the discussion already gary. The answer is still the same as it was back then.

But unless you specifically need a very large amount of fiat for something there'd be no reason to convert it anyway. You can buy houses and cars with crypto currencies and when you can earn circa 12% APY just from staking it, this argument seems like a non-issue to me.

I even accept various cryptos as payment on my hobby website. 2019 was about 5% crypto payments with the rest through Stripe. Last year that jumped to just under 30% - that's 30% that aren't costing me merchant fees, occasional charge-backs and that I don't need to trouble HMRC about . I even set up a .crypto payment URL where you can link all your crypto wallets together so it doesn't matter what crypto coin you use, the sending address is the same.

My point here is that the more people who accept and use crypto currencies, the less one has to worry about HMRC concerns.

[jammy-git]

If you want to commit tax fraud, you can already do it pretty easily, you don't need a "private" crypto coin to do it.

For 99.999% of law abiding citizens, again, they don't give a st about private funds or anonymity.

[PH4555]

I knew it wouldn't be long.

[Bloxxcreative]

I'm being lazy asking this. But what caused the massive crash in 2017....? It was across everything.

[anonymous-user]

Bloxxcreative said:

I'm being lazy asking this. But what caused the massive crash in 2017....? It was across everything.

Market manipulation.

[NRS]

PH4555 said:

We've had the discussion already gary. The answer is still the same as it was back then.

But unless you specifically need a very large amount of fiat for something there'd be no reason to convert it anyway. You can buy houses and cars with crypto currencies and when you can earn circa 12% APY just from staking it, this argument seems like a non-issue to me.

My point here is that the more people who accept and use crypto currencies, the less one has to worry about HMRC concerns.

I'd suspect with digitisation you'd have governments being linked between departments better over time - particularly if stuff like this continues. So if they see person x has just bought a house but has no money disappearing from declared taxes those two years it'll raise flags. Same goes for cars etc.

They could also ban them/restrict them from being used too. Of course some more dedicated people will be fine getting around that, but the general public are less likely to be able/be bothered with the risk too.

[PH4555]

The Spruce Goose said:

Anyway good luck on SIA going on coinbase.....

https://dailyhodl.com/2021/01/31/coinbase-explorin...

"The crypto exchange is considering adding 11 new crypto assets to its trading platform including Aragon (ANT), Arweave (AR), DigiByte (DGB), Horizon (ZEN), Livepeer (LPT), KEEP Network (KEEP), Origin Protocol (OGN), Render Token (RNDR), Siacoin (SC), SKALE Network (SKL), and VeChain (VET)."

A wallet for hundreds of millions of SC has already been spotted recently, believed to belong to Coinbase.

[Meprobamate chic]

PH4555 said:

You can buy houses and cars with crypto currencies and when you can earn circa 12% APY just from staking it, this argument seems like a non-issue to me.

I even accept various cryptos as payment on my hobby website. 2019 was about 5% crypto payments with the rest through Stripe. Last year that jumped to just under 30% - that's 30% that aren't costing me merchant fees, occasional charge-backs and that I don't need to trouble HMRC about . I even set up a .crypto payment URL where you can link all your crypto wallets together so it doesn't matter what crypto coin you use, the sending address is the same.

My point here is that the more people who accept and use crypto currencies, the less one has to worry about HMRC concerns.

You can buy a Tesla. Or one of a handful of houses. And your hobby website is not any kind of reflection of the market in general - people don't accept crypto as payment because it's too much hassle, and the tiny percentage of people who firstly own crypto, and secondly want to use it as payment, won't sway that.

[NRS]

The Spruce Goose said:

Bloxxcreative said:

I'm being lazy asking this. But what caused the massive crash in 2017....? It was across everything.

Market manipulation.

Not really... lots of assets rise and crash heavily. There was lots of questions on was it worth anything/ just a gamble etc. The public rushed in, some people sold out and the public panicked so the price dropped more. It looks like we're more getting into an acceptance that it won't go away by more people. So it's basically worth nothing itself, but if people trust it is then it gets accepted. Same as money - it means little by itself, but if people trust it then it can be used no problem.

[anonymous-user]

NRS said:

Not really...

''New research says at least half of the 2017 rise in bitcoin prices was due to coordinated price manipulation using another cryptocurrency called tether.''

University of Texas finance professor John Griffin, who has a 10-year track record of spotting financial fraud

“It was creating price support for bitcoin, and over the period that we examined, had huge price effects,” Griffin said. “Our research would indicate that there are sophisticated people harnessing investor interest for their benefit.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/13/much-of-bitcoins-2...

Sorry what's your credentials?

[g4ry13]

NRS said:

PH4555 said:

We've had the discussion already gary. The answer is still the same as it was back then.

But unless you specifically need a very large amount of fiat for something there'd be no reason to convert it anyway. You can buy houses and cars with crypto currencies and when you can earn circa 12% APY just from staking it, this argument seems like a non-issue to me.

My point here is that the more people who accept and use crypto currencies, the less one has to worry about HMRC concerns.

I'd suspect with digitisation you'd have governments being linked between departments better over time - particularly if stuff like this continues. So if they see person x has just bought a house but has no money disappearing from declared taxes those two years it'll raise flags. Same goes for cars etc.

They could also ban them/restrict them from being used too. Of course some more dedicated people will be fine getting around that, but the general public are less likely to be able/be bothered with the risk too.

I might have to research this further but let's say I have some Bitcoin sitting in a wallet which I bought 10 years ago. I go to a car dealership and pay in Bitcoin for the car. There is a realised gain which is taxable? According to HMRC, currency gains ie. foreign exchange are eligible for capital gains tax.

[PH4555]

Meprobamate chic said:

You can buy a Tesla. Or one of a handful of houses. And your hobby website is not any kind of reflection of the market in general - people don't accept crypto as payment because it's too much hassle, and the tiny percentage of people who firstly own crypto, and secondly want to use it as payment, won't sway that.

Rubbish. You sound like a luddite. Paypal just recently announced crypto merchant payments with the big 4 cryptos. Visa getting involved. Amazon and Ebay soon to be accepting SPY (shopping.io) coins as payment. And those are just in the past month or so.

Retail crypto payments are going to explode over the next few years.

[jammy-git]

PH4555 said:

Meprobamate chic said:

You can buy a Tesla. Or one of a handful of houses. And your hobby website is not any kind of reflection of the market in general - people don't accept crypto as payment because it's too much hassle, and the tiny percentage of people who firstly own crypto, and secondly want to use it as payment, won't sway that.

Rubbish. You sound like a luddite. Paypal just recently announced crypto merchant payments with the big 4 cryptos. Visa getting involved. Amazon and Ebay soon to be accepting SPY (shopping.io) coins as payment. And those are just in the past month or so.

Retail crypto payments are going to explode over the next few years.

Not until there is some stability.

[Meprobamate chic]

PH4555 said:

Rubbish. You sound like a luddite. Paypal just recently announced crypto merchant payments with the big 4 cryptos. Visa getting involved. Amazon and Ebay soon to be accepting SPY (shopping.io) coins as payment. And those are just in the past month or so.

Retail crypto payments are going to explode over the next few years.

All through third party payment processors, except Tesla. I'm not a luddite or a crypto hater - I use it regularly to buy drugs. Transfer to dealer's wallet, next day delivery. Nobody else involved.
All your hopes of evading HMRC evaporate when a third party is in the way - they have to report to someone, you won't just be able to waltz into a shop and pay with crypto directly - not for a long while.

[Dan_1981]

Any sort of big retail purchase has money laundering regs to prevent large cash purchases being a way to wash money.

Why people think that paying with crypto would avoid these checks is beyond me.

[PH4555]

Meprobamate chic said:

I'm not a luddite or a crypto hater - I use it regularly to buy drugs.

In other news I've been rugged for $50 on a brand new stcoin. Fell asleep last night as I was waiting for other people to take a punt on it and forgot about it. Just checked it now and it went up to 65% gains then got rugged. RIP.

[Scootersp]

PH4555 said:

If I'd had the money I would have bought even more at the time but I'm not buying any more now.

This feeling x100,000's others is what can cause a crash, this is not a dig at all but PH4555 has to be one of the biggest proponent of Bitcoin and he's saying it's at his personal buying limit. So you can get to the point where more and more of the people really into it and so with generally large holdings get reticent about buying more at the current price or haven't got more fiat to add, so it flattens off, then either more buyers come in and up it goes or perhaps there is a tipping point where no new buyers come and most/all start thinking it's at their limit (the number thinking its reached their limit is always growing as the price grows). So say you currently have FOMO and were coming round to possibly trying crypto's but someone really positive and pro Bitcoin is holding off buying at these prices, then you should perhaps be cautious too?


Then we all know markets don't come down slowly, Bitcoin has a talked about history of volatility higher than most which 99% of Bitcoin holders know and so I suspect this could create more bias to selling on a significant drop. Some will hold as they bought in so cheap they will stay in profit regardless and/or they believe in the long run and fairly quick recovery but lots will at least part sell, perhaps especially the more recent entrants? and if there is a whiff of a correction you can get mini contagion and then the positivity can wane a bit and the price spiral down.

[PH4555]

Scootersp said:

PH4555 said:

If I'd had the money I would have bought even more at the time but I'm not buying any more now.

This feeling x100,000's others is what can cause a crash, this is not a dig at all but PH4555 has to be one of the biggest proponent of Bitcoin and he's saying it's at his personal buying limit. So you can get to the point where more and more of the people really into it and so with generally large holdings get reticent about buying more at the current price or haven't got more fiat to add, so it flattens off, then either more buyers come in and up it goes or perhaps there is a tipping point where no new buyers come and most/all start thinking it's at their limit (the number thinking its reached their limit is always growing as the price grows). So say you currently have FOMO and were coming round to possibly trying crypto's but someone really positive and pro Bitcoin is holding off buying at these prices, then you should perhaps be cautious too?


Then we all know markets don't come down slowly, Bitcoin has a talked about history of volatility higher than most which 99% of Bitcoin holders know and so I suspect this could create more bias to selling on a significant drop. Some will hold as they bought in so cheap they will stay in profit regardless and/or they believe in the long run and fairly quick recovery but lots will at least part sell, perhaps especially the more recent entrants? and if there is a whiff of a correction you can get mini contagion and then the positivity can wane a bit and the price spiral down.

You make good points scooter. But how many joe averages were buying it at $20k, $30k, $40k, $50k? You could apply your arguments to those levels too as those prices were already out of reach, at least as far as buying a full coin goes, which is what most people like to do as it's a kinda psychological thing isn't it? The thing is, people are still buying otherwise it wouldn't be $63k today.

Personally my hunch is that most of the upwards movement now is coming from institutions (AUMs etc) rather than individuals.

There is nothing to stop someone from only buying half a coin or any other fraction of a coin at this price level if that's all they can afford, but the higher the price goes, the greater the perceived risk becomes for most people, even though BTC is considered to be the least risky compared to all other coins and tokens in the crypto space. But people new to the crypto space are seeing that ETH is doing the same sort of percentage gains and for £1700 they can buy a full coin or over a thousand XRPs. They don't care what any of them do, all they care about is will it make me money?

My comments might suggest that I've gone cold and bearish on BTC - not at all. I'm still very bullish but I'm seeing there are better gains to be had in the alts and that appeals to me more as the risk:reward ratio is higher and I'm a bit of a gambler . I remain 100% confident that BTC will break 6 figures within the next couple of years and I think the bulk of the money flow will be coming from institutions.

Time magazine just got on board yesterday and is the 34th publicly traded company to put BTC on their balance sheet. There are thousands of publicly traded companies. https://bitcointreasuries.org/. Just between those 33 there, they hold 6.75% of the total circulating supply. I just don't see those numbers reversing at any time in the future. The genie is out of the bottle now and once one or two big institutions move the rest have the follow if they want to remain competitive. A move by Amazon or Apple in putting BTC on their balance sheet would send confidence absolutely rocketing as it would basically be a huge green flag to every other company to get on board too.

Do the other 99,999 people you mention share my thoughts? Who knows. From reading across the crypto forums/reddits the general sentiment seems to be to ride it out to 6 figures and then either sell it all or take some profits. There's high confidence that 6 figures is coming so I don't think we'll see sell-offs of the magnitude that we saw in early 2018. Remember that was the first time it had happened back then and no-one had a clue whether it was all over and going to zero. Confidence is a lot stronger now as we have that cycle to look back on, along with all the mini cycles in between, so imo there will be a LOT more "diamond hands" who will hodl and ride out any dip which naturally mean the dip will be shallower.

I'm definitely not tied at the hip to BTC like some here believe. It's been a solid "vehicle" over the past 7 years to make me and other people a st-ton of money and I'll probably keep hodling while that continues. But if my fears about the upcoming ETFs come true and the price ends up being manipulated by the paper markets like the precious metals then I'll be dumping it all like a hot bun and moving my money into variious alts.