How bad is this?
Discussion
Hi all - I noticed a stain on the kitchen ceiling over the weekend; the main bathroom is directly above this, so I had a look, pulled up the bathroom flooring in the area and was met with the pictures below that show a leak from the shower base has caused a fair amount of damage under and behind the walk-in shower and found its way down to the kitchen ceiling directly below the shower....unfortunately, it appears the shower sealant has failed in a small area, causing an ongoing leak for some time and due to the sealant being likely the cause our house insurance will not cover it.
A builder I know came and had a look and feels that the whole lot needs to come out to establish the extent of damage and work required with potentially a huge bill.
Obviously, I don't want to 'bodge' it, but is there a more straightforward solution that doesn't require the whole bathroom to be gutted?
Kitchen ceiling edge, directly under the bathroom and shower:
View from the bottom of the shower where I pulled up the lino to have a look (soaked plyboard had been cut away at time of picture) :
View of the back of the base of the shower where most of the water damage appears to be:
Many thanks for any thoughts or advice!
A builder I know came and had a look and feels that the whole lot needs to come out to establish the extent of damage and work required with potentially a huge bill.
Obviously, I don't want to 'bodge' it, but is there a more straightforward solution that doesn't require the whole bathroom to be gutted?
Kitchen ceiling edge, directly under the bathroom and shower:
View from the bottom of the shower where I pulled up the lino to have a look (soaked plyboard had been cut away at time of picture) :
View of the back of the base of the shower where most of the water damage appears to be:
Many thanks for any thoughts or advice!
It really should be fully exposed for investigation - long term shower leaks can cause a surprising amount of concealed damage IME, I've dealt with a number of such matters as a building surveyor in insurance reinstatement cases.
The good news is, it's likely to be covered by your insurance.
The good news is, it's likely to be covered by your insurance.
Lotobear said:
The good news is, it's likely to be covered by your insurance.
Unfortunately, this appears unlikely if it is the sealant that has failed and caused the leak. I did have a chat with them to check on this, and they were pretty clear that this would not be covered if it was down to the sealant.Lifeisalemon said:
Lotobear said:
The good news is, it's likely to be covered by your insurance.
Unfortunately, this appears unlikely if it is the sealant that has failed and caused the leak. I did have a chat with them to check on this, and they were pretty clear that this would not be covered if it was down to the sealant.Sorry you're in this stuation OP.
Depending on how longterm your residence is, and your budget. You will get a lot of doom-mongering about tearing everything down to start again but there is a middle ground.
Get a dehumidifier in. When everything is down to an acceptable level, finger away anything knackered.
What you're left with could still be structurally sound, and you can work from there. Only then is it worth getting any quotes or considering fixes.
ferret50 said:
Whole lot has to be dried out, rotten stuff removed and replaced, bathroom is a fairly confined area to work in, I agree with your builder mate.
This. Happened to us new floors new bathroom and the best but the insurance won’t pay out under maintenance or some such bulls
t. Lifeisalemon said:
Lotobear said:
The good news is, it's likely to be covered by your insurance.
Unfortunately, this appears unlikely if it is the sealant that has failed and caused the leak. I did have a chat with them to check on this, and they were pretty clear that this would not be covered if it was down to the sealant.Thanks for the comments all. Appreciated.
Where we are at currently is that, obviously, the shower is now out of use, and a dehumidifier is running in the bathroom, so at least the damage is now contained and beyond the obviously wet plywood and clearly rotten bits that I have removed all else behind and below that seems pretty solid so hopeful structurally it's ok. Unfortunately, this time of year is a nightmare to get anything sorted, so it looks like the new year before it can be all pulled apart by someone who knows what they are doing, which is an absolute pain.
My insurance company has asked for a plumber to attend to determine the leak's cause and provide a report on this before they will even consider any claim. If it is linked to anything of 'wear and tear, or maintenance' then I am on my own, i.e. sealant failure...the problem is that to establish this fully, it all needs to be pulled apart initially, tiles down etc to access the plumbing behind the mixer tap and by then, I am committed to a full bathroom refurb at around £10K at best guess.
Where we are at currently is that, obviously, the shower is now out of use, and a dehumidifier is running in the bathroom, so at least the damage is now contained and beyond the obviously wet plywood and clearly rotten bits that I have removed all else behind and below that seems pretty solid so hopeful structurally it's ok. Unfortunately, this time of year is a nightmare to get anything sorted, so it looks like the new year before it can be all pulled apart by someone who knows what they are doing, which is an absolute pain.
My insurance company has asked for a plumber to attend to determine the leak's cause and provide a report on this before they will even consider any claim. If it is linked to anything of 'wear and tear, or maintenance' then I am on my own, i.e. sealant failure...the problem is that to establish this fully, it all needs to be pulled apart initially, tiles down etc to access the plumbing behind the mixer tap and by then, I am committed to a full bathroom refurb at around £10K at best guess.
Obviously it depends on your policy but I thought that while they won't pay to repair the "wear and tear" they do pay for consequential damage. We had a leaking radiator pipe which caused damage to the room below - the repair to the pipe was not covered but they did pay to replace the ceiling!
EmailAddress said:
Lifeisalemon said:
My insurance company has asked for a plumber to attend to determine the leak's cause and provide a report on this before they will even consider any claim.
Okay Google, cash machines near me.
If the seal on one of those push fit isolation fittings starts weeping it would cause exactly that sort of damage.
Your basic problem seems to be that you're reliant upon silicone sealant, because it looks like the tray's been installed butting-up to the wall finish (rather than the wall finish overlapping the tray). Worse, those trays - sitting on corner feet - are prone to movement.
The key thing is stiffness. If anything can flex, it will flex. How is that subfloor constructed? It looks rather odd to me.
Were it me, I'd pull it all out, then rebuild with a proper base for the tray constructed so there's no potential for tray flex - for instance, a "waffle" support structure from 18mm marine ply with a ply top for continuous support, a ply base screwed to multiple joists, and the whole lot glued and screwed together. Then bed the tray down onto the play top with a suitable bedding material.
Better still, use a different tray
If you must have the sort of wall finish arrangement (finish down the sides of the tray, rather than overlapping above it), I'd bond the tray in with continuous beads of Sikaflex or similar up the sides, to absolutely guarantee no water ingress, and only then finish off with sanitary silicone.
But as others have said, first you must dry everything out.
Whilst you're at it, consider amending the plumbing. Is the panel you removed an easy-access panel? If not then a shut-off valve like that has no place living under there IMHO. They can and do leak sometimes. Having some isolation is useful, but needs to be of a type and in a location where it isn't a source of potential problems.
The key thing is stiffness. If anything can flex, it will flex. How is that subfloor constructed? It looks rather odd to me.
Were it me, I'd pull it all out, then rebuild with a proper base for the tray constructed so there's no potential for tray flex - for instance, a "waffle" support structure from 18mm marine ply with a ply top for continuous support, a ply base screwed to multiple joists, and the whole lot glued and screwed together. Then bed the tray down onto the play top with a suitable bedding material.
Better still, use a different tray
If you must have the sort of wall finish arrangement (finish down the sides of the tray, rather than overlapping above it), I'd bond the tray in with continuous beads of Sikaflex or similar up the sides, to absolutely guarantee no water ingress, and only then finish off with sanitary silicone.
But as others have said, first you must dry everything out.
Whilst you're at it, consider amending the plumbing. Is the panel you removed an easy-access panel? If not then a shut-off valve like that has no place living under there IMHO. They can and do leak sometimes. Having some isolation is useful, but needs to be of a type and in a location where it isn't a source of potential problems.
skwdenyer said:
Lots of useful and correct info.
Many thanks for this and the other comments added above.Yes, the more I look at it, the more I realise what a crap installation it was whenever it was initially done, and it was probably a case of when not if.
Unfortunately, my knowledge of this is minimal, and if it worked, looked okay with no apparent signs of movement, wear or damage, and was out of sight and 'ain't broke', etc...
Anyway, we are where we are.
The next step is to find a plumber who responds to enquiries
(if anyone knows a good one in Somerset, please let me know!) to establish and report the cause of the leak so we can find out if the insurance will help or if I'm on my own. To my untrained eye, the green oxidation on the piping could be as much of the reason for a leak as anything else, particularly as the water damage worsens in that area and whether we can at least get a semi-usable shower working until it can all be ripped out and redone in what looks like the New Year now with Christmas around the corner.If you do a refit use these products, the tray seal is excellent, I’ve just used it on this shower bath.
https://waterproofyourbathroom.com/
https://waterproofyourbathroom.com/
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