Informal Planning Advice prior to Complaint?

[youngsyr]

dmsims said:

youngsyr said:

I'm wondering about adding more cameras, but there are issues with which areas you're allowed to film and the neighbours have already made it clear that they're going to make our lives as difficult as possible as revenge for the complaint, so I don't want to give them any more ammo.

With a lot of cameras (certainly Hikvision, Dahua) you can mask off areas (quite a fine grid is available)

Thanks, but the areas I should techinically mask off of the recording are exactly the areas I want to record to ensure that nothing nefarious happens "off camera" that ends up damaging my property.

[youngsyr]

springfan62 said:

Any prospective purchaser will be notified of the planning issue when they carry out a local authority search.

If they decide to make a retrospective planning application this will take 8 weeks to process, possibly more.

I suspect they will take advice and realise that is probably best to take it down as this saves time and they are unlikely to get planning approved.

I'd like to agree with you, but from the "conversation" yesterday, they seem to believe that they're not even required to obtain planning and even if they are, they will be granted it.

I suspect money is also a big motivator for them - this is, after all, a business venture for them. Their asking price is also way above similar sized properties on the road that have sold recently. One went for £525,000 just weeks ago. So, I suspect they will consider it worth a shot at getting planning even if it's a long shot, because taking the deck down will cost them a lot of money (and itme, which also means more money in interest on the mortgage).

Let's also say that, in my opinion, they're not entirely rational people.

[youngsyr]

dickymint said:

Ricky146a said:

WOW!
I have been watching this thread from the start and been impressed by your restraint.

Your main concern now is to keep your family and property safe. Idiots like you have next door are not rational.
Don't know if you have already done it but make sure you put it in writing to the estate agent that you are in dispute - might sound daft now but it leaves a paper trail should that become necessary down the road.

How long had your downpipe been connected to the drain in their property?
I would look into getting that replaced as soon as possible as digging a new drain after they sell the property could be expensive.

Good luck and stay safe.

Check your deeds you may have every right for that drain pipe to be there.

That had occurred to me, but the history here is muddy. The houses were built 80 years ago and our house orginally had a separate drain. As part of our basement conversion about 30 years ago (long before we bought it) the original drain was blocked up and the shared drain installed. So, I doubt the deeds would be clear on it. The drain leads into a soak away that is under our drive, so whilst the drain cover is on their land, the bulk of the drain is actually under our land. On top of that, the drain was blocked for a long time before they bought it and we actually paid to have the drain cleared.

Obviously our neighbours have no clue about any of that and aren't interested in any case - they simply saw "our pipe on their land" and decided that they could do whatever they wanted with it.

[youngsyr]

Alex Z said:

Can’t see any of the pics or link to the for sale ad, but that sounds like a very unpleasant situation. Hopefully they’ll realise that being able to sell the house is more important and will take it down.

I took the pics and link down for privacy's sake, but if you want to see them I will send you (and anyone else who is interested) the links.

I wish I shared your optimism about them being reasonable, but every aspect of this dispute (and more) has proved to be the opposite.

[FiF]

youngsyr said:

springfan62 said:

Any prospective purchaser will be notified of the planning issue when they carry out a local authority search.

If they decide to make a retrospective planning application this will take 8 weeks to process, possibly more.

I suspect they will take advice and realise that is probably best to take it down as this saves time and they are unlikely to get planning approved.

I'd like to agree with you, but from the "conversation" yesterday, they seem to believe that they're not even required to obtain planning and even if they are, they will be granted it.

I suspect money is also a big motivator for them - this is, after all, a business venture for them. Their asking price is also way above similar sized properties on the road that have sold recently. One went for £525,000 just weeks ago. So, I suspect they will consider it worth a shot at getting planning even if it's a long shot, because taking the deck down will cost them a lot of money (and itme, which also means more money in interest on the mortgage).

Let's also say that, in my opinion, they're not entirely rational people.

Anyone who openly threatens revenge for something like this isn't rational.

I think you need to make notes as soon as possible of exactly what was said, get a timeline record.. Include everything, be factual, don't try and ginger things up. If they do anything which could be construed as deliberate damage to your property, report to police. You will almost certainly get "It's a civil matter, sir." as an initial brush off response, but criminal damage as revenge for a civil dispute is exactly that, criminal. Bullies need to be put in their place, these people are clearly bullies.

[youngsyr]

Ricky146a said:

WOW!
I have been watching this thread from the start and been impressed by your restraint.

Your main concern now is to keep your family and property safe. Idiots like you have next door are not rational.
Don't know if you have already done it but make sure you put it in writing to the estate agent that you are in dispute - might sound daft now but it leaves a paper trail should that become necessary down the road.

How long had your downpipe been connected to the drain in their property?
I would look into getting that replaced as soon as possible as digging a new drain after they sell the property could be expensive.

Good luck and stay safe.

Thanks for the support! I'm with you on protecting my family and property as a priority, I actually installed CCTV on the property a little while ago as I suspected we might arrive at this point.

The shared drain had been in place for at least 30 years, although we changed the configuration slightly two years ago. We moved in about 9 years ago, they moved in about 2 years ago. They didn't even notice the drain until about 6 months ago when they cleared out all the trees and bushes in their drive which obscured it (and put a completely barren council car park in their place) and they have no idea or inclination in finding out that it actually covers a a pipe that goes under the fence and into our property to a soak away under our drive. So, in effect they have a drain cover and about two feet of pipe on their property under the ground and we have about 8 feet of pipe and a large soakaway on our side of the property.

Edited by youngsyr on Sunday 26th August 10:19

[youngsyr]

FiF said:

youngsyr said:

springfan62 said:

Any prospective purchaser will be notified of the planning issue when they carry out a local authority search.

If they decide to make a retrospective planning application this will take 8 weeks to process, possibly more.

I suspect they will take advice and realise that is probably best to take it down as this saves time and they are unlikely to get planning approved.

I'd like to agree with you, but from the "conversation" yesterday, they seem to believe that they're not even required to obtain planning and even if they are, they will be granted it.

I suspect money is also a big motivator for them - this is, after all, a business venture for them. Their asking price is also way above similar sized properties on the road that have sold recently. One went for £525,000 just weeks ago. So, I suspect they will consider it worth a shot at getting planning even if it's a long shot, because taking the deck down will cost them a lot of money (and itme, which also means more money in interest on the mortgage).

Let's also say that, in my opinion, they're not entirely rational people.

Anyone who openly threatens revenge for something like this isn't rational.

I think you need to make notes as soon as possible of exactly what was said, get a timeline record.. Include everything, be factual, don't try and ginger things up. If they do anything which could be construed as deliberate damage to your property, report to police. You will almost certainly get "It's a civil matter, sir." as an initial brush off response, but criminal damage as revenge for a civil dispute is exactly that, criminal. Bullies need to be put in their place, these people are clearly bullies.

Thanks for the advice. This thread is in part a log of what has occured from my point of view. Each entry is time stamped and is in the public domain, so even if it's not a formal log, it should have some weight.

[princeperch]

You're in the driving seat here. They obviously want (or need) to move so you aren't destined to be neighbours for any length of time.

Following their most recent outburst , unless there is a fairly sharpish apology in the next day or so, I'd probably view them as a project now to fk about as much as possible. The planners will do their thing but you can also fk them over in quite a few ways too which would be very amusing.

[Ricky146a]

princeperch said:

You're in the driving seat here. They obviously want (or need) to move so you aren't destined to be neighbours for any length of time.

Following their most recent outburst , unless there is a fairly sharpish apology in the next day or so, I'd probably view them as a project now to fk about as much as possible. The planners will do their thing but you can also fk them over in quite a few ways too which would be very amusing.

Absolutely NO!
Amusing only to you I think.
The OP has done everything right up to now and has the due process of law and planning etc on his side.
There is nothing to gain from flaming the situation and lots to lose.

OP. just carry on as you are and play it straight down the middle.

[FiF]

Ricky146a said:

princeperch said:

You're in the driving seat here. They obviously want (or need) to move so you aren't destined to be neighbours for any length of time.

Following their most recent outburst , unless there is a fairly sharpish apology in the next day or so, I'd probably view them as a project now to fk about as much as possible. The planners will do their thing but you can also fk them over in quite a few ways too which would be very amusing.

Absolutely NO!
Amusing only to you I think.
The OP has done everything right up to now and has the due process of law and planning etc on his side.
There is nothing to gain from flaming the situation and lots to lose.

OP. just carry on as you are and play it straight down the middle.

Agreed, straight bat, take no risky shots, wait for the loose and bad ball from them, which will come, and hit fair and hard for a score. Advice our England cricket openers should heed.

[Little Lofty]

I agree about staying calm, from now on I wouldn’t even speak to them, if they cause any more damage or harass you call the police. They have to take harassment seriously. My friend is currently at war with his neighbours, mainly over parking as they were running a business from home. He has stayed calm throughout while they blew their tops. The council were informed and it looks like business activity has stopped, but out of spite they continue to block my mates drive with their cars and harrass him. It’s ended up with them all (including 2 of their friends) getting official warnings from the police. It also looks like they will lose a parking space as they have until now parked in the turning circle, my mate was never bothered by this but now they’ve pissed him off he’s hoping they lose this too. It could have all been sorted amicably but because they are stupid they’ve just dug themselves a bigger and bigger hole, and are now the losers.

[anonymous-user]

I assume he's pissed off because this will affect his ability to sell until it's resolved.

If he wants to sell fast, he really should dismantle the deck.

Neighbours, huh?

[dickymint]

garyhun said:

I assume he's pissed off because this will affect his ability to sell until it's resolved.

If he wants to sell fast, he really should dismantle the deck.

Neighbours, huh?

The problem with these sort of people is they are to pig headed to do the obvious. They just drag it out till the bitter end.

[anonymous-user]

dickymint said:

garyhun said:

I assume he's pissed off because this will affect his ability to sell until it's resolved.

If he wants to sell fast, he really should dismantle the deck.

Neighbours, huh?

The problem with these sort of people is they are to pig headed to do the obvious. They just drag it out till the bitter end.

Oh I know!

[youngsyr]

As tempting as it may be sink to their level, I'm going to try my best to rise above it as they've already shown they're more than willing to engage in petty revenge.


What's more, quite often these situations came down to a "he said, she said" scenario and given that their hold on their objective facts of the situation are loose to say the least. I can't rely on them to tell the truth about anything.

There were a couple of good examples of this in our conversation yesterday, when we were accused of not talking to them about our issue with the deck, when we have made clear our concerns about privacy in at least 3 conversations since before they started in April .The last one being at the end of June when I made my feelings very clear and mentioned the planning permission requirement to them.

They then claimed that the first time we went around to speak to them (on a Sunday morning at around 11am), this was extremely intrusive and not welcome. So, their argument was first we didn't go around to speak to them and that was not reasonable. Then we did go around to speak to them and that was not reasonable either!

The fact that the last time we spoke (two months ago) they agreed to put up a fence and haven't yet done so, despite finishing the rest of the works to their house, holding parties on the deck and now putting it on the market with an open day in 6 days time, is apparently also not a reasonable point to raise, as they set the timeline for putting the fence up, not us.

These are the sort of people we're dealing with here!

[princeperch]

What are they expecting - you to make an appointment to speak to them?

If they were there for the long haul then I'd try and smooth this over but given what they did and said to you the other day, and the fact they have evinced an intention to move, I'd say fk them and the gloves would come off if they continue to play silly buggers.

[anonymous-user]

I feel for you!

[youngsyr]

princeperch said:

What are they expecting - you to make an appointment to speak to them?

If they were there for the long haul then I'd try and smooth this over but given what they did and said to you the other day, and the fact they have evinced an intention to move, I'd say fk them and the gloves would come off if they continue to play silly buggers.

It's impossible to reason with them, so I've given up trying. They very aggressively make an unfounded accusation, we refute it, they then make another unfounded accusation which contradicts the first one, or simply hurl a very nasty insult at us.

Let's not forget, they think they have done absolutely nothing wrong by constructing that deck from either a privacy or safety angle.

[dmsims]

youngsyr said:

or safety angle.

Worth reporting to Building control (as well)

[paulrockliffe]

What of theirs is the shared drain draining? And what's the evidence that there's a right for them to use your soakaway? And what are their options if they needed to drain elsewhere?

I ask because where we grew up a house next to a farm house had a soakaway in the farmers field, but no evidence of any right to it. When it came up for sale the farmer raised the issue of the trespass and refused to grant access.

The farmer now owns the house and has granted access! The house was pretty cheap under the circumstances.

If there's no evidence of any right and limited options, you could deny access and leave them unable to sell without your cooperation. Which would allow you to dictate terms re the deck, or be a complete wker about it if you like.