Trades daily rates

[Square Leg]

Olivera said:

Douglas Quaid said:

So he charged £3750. The vat just goes straight to the vat man and the contractor doesn’t benefit from it in any way. Take off the materials and that’s 2250, so £450 a day. That is not too crazy as he will have budgeted in 150-200 a day to cover business expenses so he’s probably only earning 250-300 a day which isn’t a lot for a professional to do a good job.

£200 per day (£1000 per week) to cover business expenses? Does he have all his electrical gear in the back of a Bentley Bentayga? If the materials were estimated at £1500 by the poster then that probably includes VAT, which the sparky can reclaim. So he's earning approximately £500 per day, minus a small amount for expenses.

Let's be honest and admit that many trades earn very good money indeed, often way in advance of other professions that require far more onerous formal qualifications and higher intelligence levels

From this and some of your previous posts, you appear just a tad peeved that trades can earn good money.

Tell us what you do for a living and how much you earn so we can see if you’re overpaid?

[clockworks]

Square Leg said:

Olivera said:

Douglas Quaid said:

So he charged £3750. The vat just goes straight to the vat man and the contractor doesn’t benefit from it in any way. Take off the materials and that’s 2250, so £450 a day. That is not too crazy as he will have budgeted in 150-200 a day to cover business expenses so he’s probably only earning 250-300 a day which isn’t a lot for a professional to do a good job.

£200 per day (£1000 per week) to cover business expenses? Does he have all his electrical gear in the back of a Bentley Bentayga? If the materials were estimated at £1500 by the poster then that probably includes VAT, which the sparky can reclaim. So he's earning approximately £500 per day, minus a small amount for expenses.

Let's be honest and admit that many trades earn very good money indeed, often way in advance of other professions that require far more onerous formal qualifications and higher intelligence levels

From this and some of your previous posts, you appear just a tad peeved that trades can earn good money.

Tell us what you do for a living and how much you earn so we can see if you’re overpaid?

Some tradesmen do seem to be pushing it a bit, especially if it's for work booked in advance, jobs taking a week or more. I appreciate that very small jobs and emergency call outs deserve a higher rate to cover downtime, unsocial hours, etc.
Some specialist trades warrant slightly higher rates to cover training/certification/scheme membership etc.

For basic subbie stuff like groundworks, decorating, drywalling - do these warrant higher pay than nurses, junior doctors, teachers, social workers?

Does a blocklayer or roofer deserve the same as a non-partner GP or dentist?

For what it's worth, my "trade" is clockmaker. 30 years' experience, sole trader. When I'm actually at the bench, best I can hope for is £25 an hour. I'm lucky if it averages out at £15 an hour profit over the course of a working week, after accounting for admin time, bills, and customer interaction. It does have benefits though, not physically hard work, and I'm indoors.

[scot_aln]

Olivera said:

often way in advance of other professions that require far more onerous formal qualifications and higher intelligence levels

You seen what a pro footballer earns. Intelligence, strengths and capabilities aren't often a link. Although definition of intelligence is a whole can of worms.

[Square Leg]

How does booking a job in advance have any bearing on the price being lower?

I’m booked up until July - the price by then may actually increase due to material price increases.
All noted on my quotes and accepted by my customers.

If you’re good enough, people will pay good money.

It clearly sticks in peoples throats though…

If trades are ‘over’ charging, then they’re the ones who will get found out when / if there’s a slowdown.
I’ve been through many slowdowns and recessions of various degrees of severity, but I’m still here charging what I do.

Edited by Square Leg on Friday 31st March 13:55

[Jonathan27]

Lord Marylebone said:

Aluminati said:

Olivera said:

Isn't a big 'in the trade' perk being payed cash in hand, pocketing most of it, then declaring (if anything) a vastly reduced amount to the tax man?

Cash is a pain in the arse to get rid of, and most use digital banking nowadays.

It does seem to vary a lot depending on who you speak to. Some people do indeed refuse cash with the reason given of 'What on earth would I use it for' and others still seem addicted to it.

The bloke who services/repairs my cars is obsessed with cash, and offers the usual 20% discount for cash, as was the plasterer who did a £6500 job for me last year. It was cash or find someone else.

I had a quote a few weeks back for some insulation in the attic. The guy wanted 9k, or 7k in cash. If you don't plan to declare your income, then I'm not going to use you, so I looked for someone else. The next guy wanted payment by card, and priced the job at 2.4k inc VAT. The first one was clearly just taking the p**s

[Square Leg]

clockworks said:

Some tradesmen do seem to be pushing it a bit, especially if it's for work booked in advance, jobs taking a week or more. I appreciate that very small jobs and emergency call outs deserve a higher rate to cover downtime, unsocial hours, etc.
Some specialist trades warrant slightly higher rates to cover training/certification/scheme membership etc.

For basic subbie stuff like groundworks, decorating, drywalling - do these warrant higher pay than nurses, junior doctors, teachers, social workers?

Does a blocklayer or roofer deserve the same as a non-partner GP or dentist?

For what it's worth, my "trade" is clockmaker. 30 years' experience, sole trader. When I'm actually at the bench, best I can hope for is £25 an hour. I'm lucky if it averages out at £15 an hour profit over the course of a working week, after accounting for admin time, bills, and customer interaction. It does have benefits though, not physically hard work, and I'm indoors.

Forgot to quote you on my previous reply..

Your point about trades ‘deserving’ a higher wage than doctors, nurses, teachers etc - didn’t everyone basically have the choice what profession they went in to from school?
It’s a choice, and some get paid better than others.
How does deserving come into it?

As for a roofer - they can charge £80 for 10 mins work putting a cowl on your chimney, but they can fall off the roof in 1 second and never work again, or indeed, die.

I’m probably lucky in that whilst the majority of my customers are high earning sedentary professionals, they seem to have more nouse on how a tradesman works and runs a business than many people on here (and that’s not a direct dig at you Clockwork)

[Slowboathome]

I guess a lot of it is down to market forces.

There's a shortage of good people, so they can charge more.

[scot_aln]

I think there is also a shortage of people willing to do or try things themselves creating further demand. Appreciating not everyone has the ability but a lot of flat pack furniture is pretty well tested and logical but people even pay for that to be assembled these days.

[Vanden Saab]

Tiler in the SW here £400 a day for myself and apprentice if I am forced to but prefer metre rate which is £40 per metre. For reference I have tiled 15 metres so far today.

[anonymous-user]

Slowboathome said:

I guess a lot of it is down to market forces.

There's a shortage of good people, so they can charge more.

Indeed.

By far the biggest factor with tradesman rates is supply and demand. If there were bricklayers, joiners, plumbers, and decorators standing around waiting for the phone to ring, their rates would be lower to attract customers.

It is the other way round. They are all so inundated with work that they can keep raising the price and it is barely making a dent in the queue of customers. There is such a shortage of them, that even the crap ones can earn a decent wage.

It isn't the fault of tradesmen, and it isn't the fault of their customers.

[clockworks]

Slowboathome said:

I guess a lot of it is down to market forces.

There's a shortage of good people, so they can charge more.

Another "Brexit Bonus" I guess, now that most of the Eastern Europeans have gone home.

My friend is accounts supervisor at a groundworks and planthire company. They are currently paying groundworkers £24 an hour, a couple of quid more if they are machine operators. £45k a year for digging holes and pouring concrete. This is in the far Southwest, where wages in general are pretty low, and people are queuing up to get supermarket jobs at 50p over minimum wage.

[clockworks]

Square Leg said:

Forgot to quote you on my previous reply..

Your point about trades ‘deserving’ a higher wage than doctors, nurses, teachers etc - didn’t everyone basically have the choice what profession they went in to from school?
It’s a choice, and some get paid better than others.
How does deserving come into it?

As for a roofer - they can charge £80 for 10 mins work putting a cowl on your chimney, but they can fall off the roof in 1 second and never work again, or indeed, die.

I’m probably lucky in that whilst the majority of my customers are high earning sedentary professionals, they seem to have more nouse on how a tradesman works and runs a business than many people on here (and that’s not a direct dig at you Clockwork)

Even when I was at school 50 years ago, we were being pushed into higher education and "professional" jobs. I'm sure more would learn trades if the careers advisors and teachers told them it can make more financial sense to leave school as soon as possible and pick up a shovel/trowel/blowtorch.

I appreciate that it's about supply and demand - shortage of tradesmen means higher prices.
What gets me is that even 5 years ago I could've done (and actually did) 90% of the building work myself. At 65, I'm just getting too old to board out a ceiling.

These things are cyclical though. I was pointed towards IT. Decent job 45 years ago, now a glorified box-swapping courier - that's why I got out and concentrated on my own business.
Same thing will happen with trades at some point - more youngsters seeing the potential, flooding the market.

[Square Leg]

What’s so bad about paying a ground worker £24 ph?
It’s an utterly miserable job imo - 52 weeks of the year outside, in all weathers.
If you’re not up to your eyeballs in mud and st for 8 hours in the rain and freezing temps, you’re then trying to hack your way through concrete like soil in the heights of summer (particularly last year).

If it wasn’t for ground workers we’d be living in tents.

[clockworks]

Square Leg said:

What’s so bad about paying a ground worker £24 ph?
It’s an utterly miserable job imo - 52 weeks of the year outside, in all weathers.
If you’re not up to your eyeballs in mud and st for 8 hours in the rain and freezing temps, you’re then trying to hack your way through concrete like soil in the heights of summer (particularly last year).

If it wasn’t for ground workers we’d be living in tents.

Gravediggers do it for a lot less

[Condi]

What about all those cheap Polish build...... Oh.....

Albanians, it turns out, prefer washing cars to building houses!

[Square Leg]

clockworks said:

Gravediggers do it for a lot less

Don’t be a grave digger then….

[037]

Its only digging holes and pouring concrete. Easy work . Should be happy to do it for the fun of it.
Really is an air of superiority with peoples attitude to tradesmen on here.
I've read all the following recently here 'Down the pub straight after work' 'Cheeky Chappy' 'avoiding the vat' 'only actually doing 5hrs per day'
The other one that makes me laugh is when the you think the price has been bumped up because you think you live in a nice house.
Get a quote, if you don't like it move on.

[Vanden Saab]

Lord Marylebone said:

Slowboathome said:

I guess a lot of it is down to market forces.

There's a shortage of good people, so they can charge more.

Indeed.

By far the biggest factor with tradesman rates is supply and demand. If there were bricklayers, joiners, plumbers, and decorators standing around waiting for the phone to ring, their rates would be lower to attract customers.

It is the other way round. They are all so inundated with work that they can keep raising the price and it is barely making a dent in the queue of customers. There is such a shortage of them, that even the crap ones can earn a decent wage.

It isn't the fault of tradesmen, and it isn't the fault of their customers.

True, I am booked solid for the next 12 months...

[Douglas Quaid]

Olivera said:

Douglas Quaid said:

So he charged £3750. The vat just goes straight to the vat man and the contractor doesn’t benefit from it in any way. Take off the materials and that’s 2250, so £450 a day. That is not too crazy as he will have budgeted in 150-200 a day to cover business expenses so he’s probably only earning 250-300 a day which isn’t a lot for a professional to do a good job.

£200 per day (£1000 per week) to cover business expenses? Does he have all his electrical gear in the back of a Bentley Bentayga? If the materials were estimated at £1500 by the poster then that probably includes VAT, which the sparky can reclaim. So he's earning approximately £500 per day, minus a small amount for expenses.

Let's be honest and admit that many trades earn very good money indeed, often way in advance of other professions that require far more onerous formal qualifications and higher intelligence levels

Yeah you need to have a reasonable amount in per day to cover business expenses as you don’t always work 5 days a week. It would be great if it worked that way but it sadly doesn’t. When your van breaks down, or you’re ill, or quoting or any one of a number of things, you can have plenty of days where you don’t earn a penny and in fact just spend money so the earning days balance those out. If he is pulling a grand a week after expenses averaged out over the year then good luck to him. It doesn’t mean he’s coining it particularly, just making a living.

[Aluminati]

Jonathan27 said:

I had a quote a few weeks back for some insulation in the attic. The guy wanted 9k, or 7k in cash. If you don't plan to declare your income, then I'm not going to use you, so I looked for someone else. The next guy wanted payment by card, and priced the job at 2.4k inc VAT. The first one was clearly just taking the p**s

So was the second one, unless you live in a mansion…