The definitive low-energy GU10 lighting thread
Discussion
hairyben said:
perhaps, but I'd like to understand what you're saying because it seems to make no sense at all.
12v DC has no "frequency" as such, unlike ac. A basic filament lamp is essentially a heating element which is white-hot, and how that light is treated affects how we see it, eg different inert gasses used to encase the lamp, different filters or materials on the casing.
I can and do compare 12v dichronic/alums as I carry both on the van & fit them by the stupidillion and they're quite different. The 12v alums are far more simular to GU10 alums.
Depends if it's proper DC, as in properly rectified. Most 12v transformers are pretty poor in that respect, so there may be a pulse to some extent. It'll be at the same 50hz as AC though, as the transformer doesn't change the frequency.12v DC has no "frequency" as such, unlike ac. A basic filament lamp is essentially a heating element which is white-hot, and how that light is treated affects how we see it, eg different inert gasses used to encase the lamp, different filters or materials on the casing.
I can and do compare 12v dichronic/alums as I carry both on the van & fit them by the stupidillion and they're quite different. The 12v alums are far more simular to GU10 alums.
We're assuming that 12v lamps are actually DC and not AC? (I have no idea, 12AC stuff is pretty rare, but not unheard of).
The lamps will have a frequency, but it's the light itself that has the frequency, or, more correctly, a range/band-width of frequencies which, when mixed together, give us the colour temp of the light output. However, that wasn't the context in which frequency was being discussed.
Most low voltage lighting transformers are 11.6VAC
We should remember that (with lamp comparisons in mind) there are a whole load of different manufacturers doing different things. However, here are some typical lamps:
Radium GZ10 Dichroic 230V
http://www.radium.de/de/produkte/halogen-reflektor...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 900cd
Ra: 100
Radium GU10 Aluminium 230V
http://www.radium.de/de/produkte/halogen-reflektor...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 900cd
Ra: 100
GE GU5.3 Dichroic 12V
http://catalog.gelighting.com/lamp/halogen/halogen...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 1650cd
Ra: 100
GE GU5.3 Aluminium 12V
http://catalog.gelighting.com/lamp/halogen/halogen...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 1650cd
Ra: 100
You can see from this that the characteristics of the light output does not change from dichroic to aluminium lamp types. If you're seeing a difference, perhaps there is another variable such as the brand of lamp?
We should remember that (with lamp comparisons in mind) there are a whole load of different manufacturers doing different things. However, here are some typical lamps:
Radium GZ10 Dichroic 230V
http://www.radium.de/de/produkte/halogen-reflektor...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 900cd
Ra: 100
Radium GU10 Aluminium 230V
http://www.radium.de/de/produkte/halogen-reflektor...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 900cd
Ra: 100
GE GU5.3 Dichroic 12V
http://catalog.gelighting.com/lamp/halogen/halogen...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 1650cd
Ra: 100
GE GU5.3 Aluminium 12V
http://catalog.gelighting.com/lamp/halogen/halogen...
Colour: 2900k
Luminosity: 1650cd
Ra: 100
You can see from this that the characteristics of the light output does not change from dichroic to aluminium lamp types. If you're seeing a difference, perhaps there is another variable such as the brand of lamp?
Edited by 200bhp on Sunday 6th January 14:52
I bought 2 of these to test - 6000K and 3000K
http://www.wholesaleledlights.co.uk/gu10-led/gu10-...
The 6000K is too clinical and almost painful to have on. It's just too blue and sharp.
The 3000K one is fine,. I have it in a 3 lamp fitting alongside 2 other normal GU10 bulbs. The LED bulb provides a nice constant band of light rather than a spot. It's slightly less bright and muddy but acceptable for an office.
I might buy a few more of the 3000K ones to dot around and use in conjunction with the traditional GU10 for the meantime.
edit: found over the last few weeks that they have a significant 'flicker' if you move your arm about quickly you get a strobe effect.
http://www.wholesaleledlights.co.uk/gu10-led/gu10-...
The 6000K is too clinical and almost painful to have on. It's just too blue and sharp.
The 3000K one is fine,. I have it in a 3 lamp fitting alongside 2 other normal GU10 bulbs. The LED bulb provides a nice constant band of light rather than a spot. It's slightly less bright and muddy but acceptable for an office.
I might buy a few more of the 3000K ones to dot around and use in conjunction with the traditional GU10 for the meantime.
edit: found over the last few weeks that they have a significant 'flicker' if you move your arm about quickly you get a strobe effect.
Edited by dtmpower on Friday 8th February 22:58
E36GUY said:
220 lumens of this product is less than 50% of what you expect from a 50W Halogen which would typically be about 500.
I purchased 6 of these this week for kitchen, to replace 50w GU10s. I ordered wrong ones initially (cool white, wife didnt like). So I called them, returned them & swopped for warm white. Great service, just charged postage to change (£1.99 next day delivery upon receipt of my cock up). I changed a 50w GU10 to new LED & TBH could see no difference in light quality. Very happy with the result, especially tking into account the energy savings. Next job is to attack the 3 chandaliers!! 15 led candle bulbs about to be ordered...Slightly off topic, has anyone tried these:
JCC JC71191 RAKULA DOWNLIGHT
Recessed 7.8W LED Downlight in white finished die-cast aluminium.
Average life 40,000 hours
50° beam angle
6 high powered LEDs provide the light output.
Comes included with integral driver.
They seem to be a 4" commercial down light that are usually expensive (£100+) but are being sold off by an Ebay seller for £13ea
JCC JC71191 RAKULA DOWNLIGHT
Recessed 7.8W LED Downlight in white finished die-cast aluminium.
Average life 40,000 hours
50° beam angle
6 high powered LEDs provide the light output.
Comes included with integral driver.
They seem to be a 4" commercial down light that are usually expensive (£100+) but are being sold off by an Ebay seller for £13ea
I haven't trawled the whole thread, but here's my experience of LED.
There are a lot of rubbish LED out there, and it is a case of you get what you pay for. Cheap LED will struggle to output more than a candle and will be dissappointing. Been there, done that. If it's less than £10 a bulb you're wasting you money.
My kitchen refit has LED fittings in the ceiling, 11 of them around the edges centered over the worktops at approx 60mm centres. I've use NxtGen GU10 bulbs, cold white, which are 380 lumens a piece. I just checked, and these now have 430 lumens, which should be bright enough for anyone! I also have two ceiling "roses" with three LED GU10, but I used different bulbs for these as the bulds are on show so I went for aluminium bodied bulbs so they look like part of the stainless steel fitting, and you don't get glare and light leakage from the sides. These are warm white for softer illumination, but still plenty bright.
My 8' x 8' office, which is off the kitchen, is lit by 5 of the NxtGen bulbs, dimmable this time, again in cold white. They just about do the job, but I may at some point replace the GU10 fitting directly above my desk with a large fitting, something like 12x1W Cree with 900 lumen output to get a bit more light on my desk.
One of the big benefits of LED other than the reduced running costs is the lack of heat. When I first had the kitchen done the ceiling spots were 50w halogen, and you could feel the heat on the top of your head while prepping food. If I want heating I'll turn the thermostat up thanks!
There are a lot of rubbish LED out there, and it is a case of you get what you pay for. Cheap LED will struggle to output more than a candle and will be dissappointing. Been there, done that. If it's less than £10 a bulb you're wasting you money.
My kitchen refit has LED fittings in the ceiling, 11 of them around the edges centered over the worktops at approx 60mm centres. I've use NxtGen GU10 bulbs, cold white, which are 380 lumens a piece. I just checked, and these now have 430 lumens, which should be bright enough for anyone! I also have two ceiling "roses" with three LED GU10, but I used different bulbs for these as the bulds are on show so I went for aluminium bodied bulbs so they look like part of the stainless steel fitting, and you don't get glare and light leakage from the sides. These are warm white for softer illumination, but still plenty bright.
My 8' x 8' office, which is off the kitchen, is lit by 5 of the NxtGen bulbs, dimmable this time, again in cold white. They just about do the job, but I may at some point replace the GU10 fitting directly above my desk with a large fitting, something like 12x1W Cree with 900 lumen output to get a bit more light on my desk.
One of the big benefits of LED other than the reduced running costs is the lack of heat. When I first had the kitchen done the ceiling spots were 50w halogen, and you could feel the heat on the top of your head while prepping food. If I want heating I'll turn the thermostat up thanks!
Edited by VictorMeldrew on Saturday 9th February 13:22
lj04 said:
Have just fitted GUYS ZEP 1 & 2 LED's in my new extension and found the light particuly from the smaller ZEP 1 very impressive. I am using dimmers on them so I don't know if the ZEP 2 would be even brighter with a non dimming transformer. Great bit of kit.
How many Zep 1s have you fitted and what dimmer switch are you using? Do they dim through a good range?Our whole vestibule has been converted to LED ,many GU10 down lights, spots ,our main GU's are Osram 4.5w 3 led ,Amitex 11w ww120 large screw fit spots in two hallways ,and some philips 12w bayonet dimable look like pumpkins ,in one hall it has no natural light so these are on nearly all day and we havent lost a bulb in that area in 3 yrs .
I have 6 Zep 1 & 4 Zep 2 LED with a double Iutron dimmers, and after doing the basic & fine trimming as per there instructions. Dims from nearly nothing to full brightness. Must admit setting up was a bit of a nuiscence was expecting to just plug & play.
budwozza said:
How many Zep 1s have you fitted and what dimmer switch are you using? Do they dim through a good range?
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