Woodwork 101

[Tony Angelino]

RSVR101 said:

For a kiln dried softwood such as pine we normally assume a shrinkage percentage of up to 3%, so 3mm per metre when taking it from the workshop to a centrally heated house. Time of year makes a big difference depending upon temp and humidity, in winter we used to get a few issues taking completed furniture from the workshop which was cold straight to a warm heated house. We had the workshop re-insulated and Clad and it’s been fine since. Pine will draw in moisture if not kept well leading it to shrink more later. Ideally any softwood boards need to be kept wrapped in plastic or it will cup. It helps to prevent issues a lot if the products are painted or finished and sealed well.

Tangential shrinkage / radial shrinkage = 2 / 1. Result = cupping on wider boards as you move away from the center of the log from whence they were cut, wood will cup 'opposite' to the direction of the growth rings. Length shrinkage is usually regarded as minimal, 3% does sound a little on the high side.

Edited by Tony Angelino on Saturday 22 June 14:06

[PAT64]

Strange question for wood fans

Do you reckon pallet wood is good quality ?

I see people creating planters, pots, tables, decks, sheds and even fences out of them.

I do like the idea of re-using wood and being eco and recycle friendly but I have also read around the net there cheap low quality wood and wont last a year or two, but was unable to see if this was due to not treating it with wood sealer or wood paint.

[AdeTuono]

PAT64 said:

Strange question for wood fans

Do you reckon pallet wood is good quality ?

[SeeFive]

PAT64 said:

Strange question for wood fans

Do you reckon pallet wood is good quality ?

I see people creating planters, pots, tables, decks, sheds and even fences out of them.

I do like the idea of re-using wood and being eco and recycle friendly but I have also read around the net there cheap low quality wood and wont last a year or two, but was unable to see if this was due to not treating it with wood sealer or wood paint.

The stuff I used is hardly what I would call good quality but doesn’t come any cheaper when you are building skills and as you say, gives a certain satisfaction when rescuing it from the log burner.

It takes some work to prep with warps, twists, shakes and damage very common once you release the wood from the pallet construction. I also tend to try to work out how to avoid using the nail holed parts in the project, so it is for small items only. So in my case, a percentage still hits the log burner as it is completely unsuitable for woodwork but the majority is usable. It looks ok when naturally finished to some pine lovers and when painted really doesn’t matter. Pallets are also made out of oak too, and that is a different story to the pine in term of robustness and finish quality.

The pallet wood I used on the bedside table earlier is pine softwood, so not particularly impact resistant. But once dried and prepped, it remains quite stable even in wide glued up panels.

Those tables were sketched by the daughter for me to make and after than pic was taken, finished in wax as she requested (again not a hardy finish). She has had about 9 years use out of them with hot coffee mugs and all the usual paraphernalia a 20something girl can throw at them. As that was the first time I had used pallet wood, the joinery was a bit over-designed for movement too. M&T’s not too thick, custom wood clips in a rail groove to hols the top on etc...They are still as new after wipe down and buff, but to be fair she does keep things clean in her room, or as it is now, her own little place.

So personally, I haven’t seen such stuff deteriorate, but I guess it depends on how sympathetic the user is. I would use it again just from the satisfaction of turning junk into something fun, oddball or useful - a bit of a thing with me

The oak pallets would certainly be hardier both inside and outside home but as usual, will come and go a bit more due to smaller fibres than pine, take longer to dry out before internal use and being oak, will definitely blunt your tools even before you hit metal in the prep stage

[SeeFive]

AdeTuono said:

PAT64 said:

Strange question for wood fans

Do you reckon pallet wood is good quality ?

Pretty much the TLDR on my reply

[PAT64]

SeeFive said:

The stuff I used is hardly what I would call good quality but doesn’t come any cheaper when you are building skills and as you say, gives a certain satisfaction when rescuing it from the log burner.

It takes some work to prep with warps, twists, shakes and damage very common once you release the wood from the pallet construction. I also tend to try to work out how to avoid using the nail holed parts in the project, so it is for small items only. So in my case, a percentage still hits the log burner as it is completely unsuitable for woodwork but the majority is usable. It looks ok when naturally finished to some pine lovers and when painted really doesn’t matter. Pallets are also made out of oak too, and that is a different story to the pine in term of robustness and finish quality.

The pallet wood I used on the bedside table earlier is pine softwood, so not particularly impact resistant. But once dried and prepped, it remains quite stable even in wide glued up panels.

Those tables were sketched by the daughter for me to make and after than pic was taken, finished in wax as she requested (again not a hardy finish). She has had about 9 years use out of them with hot coffee mugs and all the usual paraphernalia a 20something girl can throw at them. As that was the first time I had used pallet wood, the joinery was a bit over-designed for movement too. M&T’s not too thick, custom wood clips in a rail groove to hols the top on etc...They are still as new after wipe down and buff, but to be fair she does keep things clean in her room, or as it is now, her own little place.

So personally, I haven’t seen such stuff deteriorate, but I guess it depends on how sympathetic the user is. I would use it again just from the satisfaction of turning junk into something fun, oddball or useful - a bit of a thing with me

The oak pallets would certainly be hardier both inside and outside home but as usual, will come and go a bit more due to smaller fibres than pine, take longer to dry out before internal use and being oak, will definitely blunt your tools even before you hit metal in the prep stage

Cheers yeah I have similar thoughts regarding pine and oak pallets, seems indoor its fine but outdoors can be an issue and apparently that is even when treated with wood protection, but good to see its worked.

[PAT64]

AdeTuono said:

lol I did say its a weird one....

I just kinda thought it was quite cool ;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrvJ0j46tEs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuFq2Knnvj0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phnutXdrBZ0

Apparently its called upcycling, people are making planters, fences, decking, chairs, beds, guy here on previous page or two said he was gonna make a shed from wooden pallets.

Obviously if its something you want for a good durability and long term a good quality timber is a must but for small stuff maybe pots and planters etc

[SeeFive]

PAT64 said:

Cheers yeah I have similar thoughts regarding pine and oak pallets, seems indoor its fine but outdoors can be an issue and apparently that is even when treated with wood protection, but good to see its worked.

To be fair, most of their previous working life they have lived outdoors, but for some strange reason (opportunity?) I have not used them in an outdoor project. I reckon they would be as good as any boards from a comparable wood species. Pine is pine, oak is oak etc.

Sure it isn’t quarter sawn oak, but personally I wouldn’t be spending that kind of money on materials for an outdoor project

Edit: of course (being stupid earlier I forgot) the big difference outdoors is it isn’t pressure treated.

Edit again, checking the web some are. Check the marking before working with them. Can be hazardous.

Edited by SeeFive on Saturday 22 June 17:56

[loughran]

Progress with the garden bench.

[SeeFive]

loughran said:

Progress with the garden bench.

Lovely piece. I’d feel very guilty putting that outside.

[Aluminati]

That bench is ubercool

[imck]

PAT64 said:

Apparently its called upcycling, people are making planters, fences, decking, chairs, beds, guy here on previous page or two said he was gonna make a shed from wooden pallets.

Obviously if its something you want for a good durability and long term a good quality timber is a must but for small stuff maybe pots and planters etc

My Dad built a Shed from Pallets for his Allotment must be 30 Years ago. I remember helping him make the Door.
Was visiting the Parents last Week and it's only just given up.

Skimmed with a Bandsaw to clean the faces.
90s Pallets probably treated with something that's banned now. Not sure what he treated it with.

[jakesmith]

Schmeeky said:

I have recently started playing around with wood, and have built a couple of things that I think have turned out OK. I enjoy the design process and figuring out the problems that inevitably arise. However, I am still very much the noob, so I thought I'd ask the PH hive mind - what are your toptips? What are the must have tools? What are the unlikely but ever-so-useful tools? Are there good websites with (very) easy projects?

And of course, any thread is useless without pics, so can we see what you've been building?

I'll start with my pretty basic but unbelievably sturdy step-stool, so you can all point and laugh.

OP that's a very nice looking and sturdy little thing
But I have to say, you don't want screw heads visible on a nice thing like that, it's one thing if you've just knocked something up that will be out of sight but that's had quite a bit of thought go into it

You can individually remove the screws, drill a fairly shallow hole ie 12-15mm deep, making your new hole the same diameter as some dowel, but larger than the diameter of the screw head, control the depth of the hole you're drilling by putting masking tape round the bit, or use a depth stop attached to the drill bit, then replace the screw, then glue in the dowel, use a pad saw to cut it off level, sand and stain
In future consider gluing & clamping, screwing on the inside etc

[PAT64]

SeeFive said:

To be fair, most of their previous working life they have lived outdoors, but for some strange reason (opportunity?) I have not used them in an outdoor project. I reckon they would be as good as any boards from a comparable wood species. Pine is pine, oak is oak etc.

Sure it isn’t quarter sawn oak, but personally I wouldn’t be spending that kind of money on materials for an outdoor project

Edit: of course (being stupid earlier I forgot) the big difference outdoors is it isn’t pressure treated.

Edit again, checking the web some are. Check the marking before working with them. Can be hazardous.

Edited by SeeFive on Saturday 22 June 17:56

Yeah I think a lot of the pallets won't be pressure treated but some sites said you can varnish and protect and seal still, yes chemicals could be bad for food or plants.

[PAT64]

imck said:

My Dad built a Shed from Pallets for his Allotment must be 30 Years ago. I remember helping him make the Door.
Was visiting the Parents last Week and it's only just given up.

Skimmed with a Bandsaw to clean the faces.
90s Pallets probably treated with something that's banned now. Not sure what he treated it with.

30 years wow, that is usually more then what most expensive sheds last !

Well at least it shows wood can be wood I guess

[SeeFive]

PAT64 said:

Yeah I think a lot of the pallets won't be pressure treated but some sites said you can varnish and protect and seal still, yes chemicals could be bad for food or plants.

I was thinking more about your lungs when working the wood than the plants to be honest.

Having wood turned and sanded at high RPM some really nasty woods, it really is worth understanding the need to filter your air properly while you work. It seems if there is a code on the pallet, we need to look it up before powering anything up in the shop (or burning it in the fire pit) and maybe take some precautions.

Some woods have clues in the names like “poison walnut” but others are a bit iffy on size / nature of dust particles getting through inappropriate masks etc.

[uncinqsix]

Mark Benson said:

Schmeeky said:

Clamps. Clamps are the most useful things to have about, they're like have 3 more sets of arms!

You can never, ever have enough clamps.

My current count sits at 30, and I still feel that I need more.

[The Moose]

RSVR101 said:

For a kiln dried softwood such as pine we normally assume a shrinkage percentage of up to 3%, so 3mm per metre when taking it from the workshop to a centrally heated house. Time of year makes a big difference depending upon temp and humidity, in winter we used to get a few issues taking completed furniture from the workshop which was cold straight to a warm heated house. We had the workshop re-insulated and Clad and it’s been fine since. Pine will draw in moisture if not kept well leading it to shrink more later. Ideally any softwood boards need to be kept wrapped in plastic or it will cup. It helps to prevent issues a lot if the products are painted or finished and sealed well.

Am I missing something? 3mm of 1m is not 3%! That would be 0.3%...or am I missing something and should expect a parrot inbound?!

OP: great thread!

[Dave J]

log store

[Schmeeky]

The Moose said:

OP: great thread!

I've learnt so much from all the good folk on this here thread already, and the desire to improve and make better stuff is inspired by all these talented guys making beautiful benches, cunning cat-storage systems, and wonderful wood storage houses!

My playing in the workshop is going to take a back seat for a little bit - after being out of work for a little while, I start an exciting new job tomorrow!