Renewable energy to save money? Sorry It doesn't work.

[beanoir]

Evoluzione said:

Exactly this. Which is what I wrote in my opening post.
The problem is here (on PH) and in real life people are asking the same questions over and over again and all they want is to see a saving. That's what this thread is for.

Sorry, perhaps my post was poorly written - I agree entirely!

[jason61c]

I had biomass fitted, it paid out over £32k in 7 years(domestic tariff).

cost about £9k to put in.

So it 'made' money.

we're now running on gas.

[Evoluzione]

jason61c said:

I had biomass fitted, it paid out over £32k in 7 years(domestic tariff).

cost about £9k to put in.

So it 'made' money.

we're now running on gas.

It made lots of money, yet for no listed reason you're admitting you dropped it and went back to traditional good old gas.
Ok, lesson to be learned there.
Perhaps.

[Evoluzione]

Bacon Is Proof said:

Evoluzione said:

I threw down the gauntlet and if you read all of the posts in this thread then I think there is about 2 people who claim to have made it work in a way which applies to the majority of us here in the UK.

Still asking the wrong question.
It can work, you just need an adjustment in attitude and lifestyle.

Still trotting out the same pointless one-liner.
I'm not living like a caveman, we've moved on a bit since then.

[Bacon Is Proof]

Evoluzione said:

Still trotting out the same pointless one-liner.
I'm not living like a caveman, we've moved on a bit since then.

It's not one or the other, find a happy medium.
You want to have your cake and eat it, that doesn't work.
My personal example, off grid, is an extreme.
You wanting to change fk all is the other extreme.
Find the middle ground.

[Evoluzione]

Bacon Is Proof said:

Evoluzione said:

Still trotting out the same pointless one-liner.
I'm not living like a caveman, we've moved on a bit since then.

It's not one or the other, find a happy medium.
You want to have your cake and eat it, that doesn't work.
My personal example, off grid, is an extreme.
You wanting to change fk all is the other extreme.
Find the middle ground.

Another way of looking at it is to make what you know and your environment work for you.
This thread was set up for the average man on the street, not me.
We are not excessive users wanting to change nothing, we do have an environment and some knowledge which could work for us, but it isn't for this thread.

[jason61c]

Evoluzione said:

It made lots of money, yet for no listed reason you're admitting you dropped it and went back to traditional good old gas.
Ok, lesson to be learned there.
Perhaps.

Yes, we wanted a gas cooker, so it we had a gas connection installed. It saved carrying pellets to the store, having to fill the hopper etc.

It was ok for that period in our life.

You only said it doesn’t save money, I just mentioned my first hand experience if it ‘making’ money.

[KTMsm]

jason61c said:

You only said it doesn’t save money, I just mentioned my first hand experience if it ‘making’ money.

Only for a short period, I looked into it circa 6 years ago and the grants had already been substantially reduced

[Evoluzione]

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

It made lots of money, yet for no listed reason you're admitting you dropped it and went back to traditional good old gas.
Ok, lesson to be learned there.
Perhaps.

Yes, we wanted a gas cooker, so it we had a gas connection installed. It saved carrying pellets to the store, having to fill the hopper etc.

It was ok for that period in our life.

You only said it doesn’t save money, I just mentioned my first hand experience if it ‘making’ money.

Yes it's a real life example. Just a bit dated and unrepeatable now though.
In a way you've turned it into a job though, which has paid you so a bit different to solar and why it's paid well.

Edited by Evoluzione on Thursday 17th February 13:12

[beanoir]

paddy1970 said:

Thats 10 years return on investment...sorry but that's not great.

Buying all of your electricity from a supplier has no payback at all, so even 10 years is better than a lifetime of no payback

[nunpuncher]

It seems to me that all of these things CAN save you money. But there's usually a big fat IF attached to the CAN and it's nearly always a special grant or rate that is at the mercy of a government which will change in time or a private company that will shut the door at any time.

As for "adjust your life to only use what you generate" probably works if you live alone or just a couple. As a father of 2 young kids and a wife that has no idea what things cost I now sympathise with my father who spent my childhood flicking lights off an shouting "ELECTRICITY DOESN'T GROW ON TREES"

[jason61c]

Evoluzione said:

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

It made lots of money, yet for no listed reason you're admitting you dropped it and went back to traditional good old gas.
Ok, lesson to be learned there.
Perhaps.

Yes, we wanted a gas cooker, so it we had a gas connection installed. It saved carrying pellets to the store, having to fill the hopper etc.

It was ok for that period in our life.

You only said it doesn’t save money, I just mentioned my first hand experience if it ‘making’ money.

Yes it's a real life example. Just a bit dated and unrepeatable now though.
In a way you've turned it into a job though, which has paid you so a bit different to solar and why it's paid well.

Edited by Evoluzione on Thursday 17th February 13:12

why have i turned it into a job?

[Evoluzione]

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

It made lots of money, yet for no listed reason you're admitting you dropped it and went back to traditional good old gas.
Ok, lesson to be learned there.
Perhaps.

Yes, we wanted a gas cooker, so it we had a gas connection installed. It saved carrying pellets to the store, having to fill the hopper etc.

It was ok for that period in our life.

You only said it doesn’t save money, I just mentioned my first hand experience if it ‘making’ money.

Yes it's a real life example. Just a bit dated and unrepeatable now though.
In a way you've turned it into a job though, which has paid you so a bit different to solar and why it's paid well.

Edited by Evoluzione on Thursday 17th February 13:12

why have i turned it into a job?

I don't know, why did you?

[jason61c]

Evoluzione said:

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

It made lots of money, yet for no listed reason you're admitting you dropped it and went back to traditional good old gas.
Ok, lesson to be learned there.
Perhaps.

Yes, we wanted a gas cooker, so it we had a gas connection installed. It saved carrying pellets to the store, having to fill the hopper etc.

It was ok for that period in our life.

You only said it doesn’t save money, I just mentioned my first hand experience if it ‘making’ money.

Yes it's a real life example. Just a bit dated and unrepeatable now though.
In a way you've turned it into a job though, which has paid you so a bit different to solar and why it's paid well.

Edited by Evoluzione on Thursday 17th February 13:12

why have i turned it into a job?

I don't know, why did you?

This is strange........ Its not my job at all, I haven't turned it into a job. I asked you why you said(as above) "In a way you've turned it into a job though"?

[Evoluzione]

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

jason61c said:

Evoluzione said:

It made lots of money, yet for no listed reason you're admitting you dropped it and went back to traditional good old gas.
Ok, lesson to be learned there.
Perhaps.

Yes, we wanted a gas cooker, so it we had a gas connection installed. It saved carrying pellets to the store, having to fill the hopper etc.

It was ok for that period in our life.

You only said it doesn’t save money, I just mentioned my first hand experience if it ‘making’ money.

Yes it's a real life example. Just a bit dated and unrepeatable now though.
In a way you've turned it into a job though, which has paid you so a bit different to solar and why it's paid well.

why have i turned it into a job?

I don't know, why did you?

This is strange........ Its not my job at all, I haven't turned it into a job. I asked you why you said(as above) "In a way you've turned it into a job though"?

To try and save and make money I would have thought.

You had to work at it hence my comment. Those little bits of wood didn't run down the road unprompted. They had to be ordered, delivered, stored, put into the burner. Then the burner cleaned out.
It cost you in time and buildings. Buildings aren't free, they have to be bought, maintained and Council tax spent on them.

You don't have any of that now you're on mains gas apart from having the boiler serviced once in a blue moon.

[4Q]

So many made up figures being spouted here and on another similar thread so here are a few spreadsheets breaking down returns from PV & batteries.

I've made a few assumptions on all of them; I've calculated the annual generation at 3880kWh pa which is for a south facing roof in the middle of the UK, it will be higher if you're down south or lower if you're in Scotland (except Edinburgh- Dundee) I've assumed a std electricity price of 23p which is the current capped rate (rising to 30p in April) I know some people will be on less at the moment but come renewal time they will catch up so it doesn't really affect the overall returns. I've kept energy price rises at the historical average of 8% pa and kept CPI low at 3.5%, although in the short term at least they will both be MUCH higher than that. I've degraded the panel performance by .5% pa which is typical for a decent panel. I've taken £30pa out of the gains to cover the cost of a replacement inverter in 15-20 years time and on the battery sheet increased this by £200 to cover the additional cost of new batteries in circa 12 years. I've done one just for PV with 40% self consumption of generation and one for 50% which can be achieved with a little bit of effort load shifting to daytime for things like dishwasher/washing machine/dryer/etc. With batteries I've increased this to 85% however I haven't included arbitrage which will be another £200pa at current price differential.

I'm happy to share this spreadsheet for anyone to play with their own figures if you PM me.

[4Q]

I seem to have killed this thread with my facts and figures

[PushedDover]

The OP post is so biased it seems pointless to enter the ring.
Quick question though - the CAPEX required to go renewable on a home level is known.
The future costs of Electricity, Gas, or indeed Oil CH is not known.

How can a rash statement be made that : "Renewable energy to save money? Sorry It doesn't work."

[Regbuser]

@4Q

Tldr for us mouth breathers!

In summary...?

[Evanivitch]

4Q said:

I seem to have killed this thread with my facts and figures

Hard to see what you've varied between each. It doesn't appear to be a best, medium and worst case scenario model, which ultimately gives the best representation of the variables and risk over the period.