Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it
Discussion
TheBinarySheep said:
Tenant is giving us until 6:30 to give her a set of keys, or she's coming to our home, and if we still don't give her a set of keys, then she's going to break in and take back possession.
She's arguing that what we've done is illegal, and she can legally take the property back.
The options she's giving us are, give her the keys, or £100. We're on the phone to the police now as this is going to far.
Any update OP?She's arguing that what we've done is illegal, and she can legally take the property back.
The options she's giving us are, give her the keys, or £100. We're on the phone to the police now as this is going to far.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Friday 11th February 17:39
but it was an excellent error. Made me properly smile.SpeckledJim said:
Groat said:
Well it's true that life's vagaries emasculate functional referencing, but is this "done correctly" going to involve CRO checks and access to medical records per exemplo??
Silly notion in my opinion that there's any referencing that's going to predict future individual human conduct or have any efficacy if it doesn't include exploration of health and prior (for example, but not exclusively) serious recorded though not visibly evident behavioural issues which are very likely to impact on conduct of tenancy.
Would you give the average landlord access to such sensitive personal data? Would you take the average landlord's subjective opinion of a tenant seriously? This is a country which has people who comfortably describe people about whose backgrounds they know nothing as "scrotes", "turd-munching retards" and "meat units". Do they have any serious input to make to tenancy referencing?
So what does "done correctly" comprise of ?
Simply a verifiable record of rent payments on time or missed, and the values/proportions of past deposits refunded would be a good indicator of someone’s trust worthiness, wouldn’t it?Silly notion in my opinion that there's any referencing that's going to predict future individual human conduct or have any efficacy if it doesn't include exploration of health and prior (for example, but not exclusively) serious recorded though not visibly evident behavioural issues which are very likely to impact on conduct of tenancy.
Would you give the average landlord access to such sensitive personal data? Would you take the average landlord's subjective opinion of a tenant seriously? This is a country which has people who comfortably describe people about whose backgrounds they know nothing as "scrotes", "turd-munching retards" and "meat units". Do they have any serious input to make to tenancy referencing?
So what does "done correctly" comprise of ?
Edited by Groat on Saturday 12th February 20:05
TheBinarySheep said:
She’s kicking off now. Apparently ringing the police and the council and she’s going to speak to the judge.
I’ve told her to crack on.
This is what should have been the approach much earlier.I’ve told her to crack on.
No point trying to be courteous and helpful if they are just going to bend the rules and take advantage.
Glad it's come to an end. They are just chancing their arm now and relying on your good nature.
ecsrobin said:
He’s either been on a big bender celebrating or she’s hunted him down…..
I don't know why but I have a picture of the OP at the local Wetherspoons and then his ex Tenant comes in …—
I’ve read this thread with massive interest and horror and give full respect to the OP for his honesty throughout. When a tenant deliberately sets out not to pay and to damage a property (leaving a tap running and poo everywhere is just not acceptable) you’d think the Landlord deserves some protection.
LooneyTunes said:
To a degree I agree with the idea that a central tenant referencing would be extremely useful if done correctly but don’t entirely agree with your logic around “matching”.
You don’t want to create a situation where there is a view that professional landlords can deal with/absorb all the crap so it all gets pushed in their direction unless they are specifically in the business of dealing with problem tenants. Otherwise you end up with cream-skimming by others (the smaller landlords) and the inadvertent creation of sub-prime portfolio that then becomes unsustainable.
If you accept that there is a variable level of risk presented by tenants then the obvious “market” approach would be to price the awful ones higher.
I would argue that that concern would be somewhat self solving by the nature of the housing stock the professional landlord chooses to invest in though. You don’t want to create a situation where there is a view that professional landlords can deal with/absorb all the crap so it all gets pushed in their direction unless they are specifically in the business of dealing with problem tenants. Otherwise you end up with cream-skimming by others (the smaller landlords) and the inadvertent creation of sub-prime portfolio that then becomes unsustainable.
If you accept that there is a variable level of risk presented by tenants then the obvious “market” approach would be to price the awful ones higher.
Added to that, putting a problem tenant into a transaction with an amateur landlord is silly because it just creates more work for the LA that has chosen to do that. A professional landlord by the very nature of being professional will have the skill set and mechanisms to handle that type of customer and also have the relationship with the local authority as well as knowing what can and can't be done, what has to be done and when etc. if they don't, then they obviously aren't professional so will have lower profits than those in their sector who are.
There's no upside for anyone from matching professional scumbags with amateur landlords. It's wastes all three parties' time as well as the landlord's and the LA's resources and money.
One can certainly question why an amateur landlord is getting involved in the higher risk end of the market and you could argue that they get what they deserve but it's not that black and white nor does it still help anyone involved.
Appears from the OP's postings that a Section 8 Notice was not used, since rental arrears, damages & other costs could have been claimed, leading to a possible CCJ.
A tenancy only ends when there has either been an unequivocal agreement between the LL/Agent and the tenant/s to voluntary bring the tenancy to an end, the same in writing, and/or a Court Bailiff executes a possession order.
It is possible that the OP's tenant/s has not voluntary given up tenancy of the property, therefore the OP could find himself facing either a claim for unlawful possession, and/or harassment.
I once attempted to assist a LL with a claim brought by a local authority for unlawful possession, similar circumstances to the OP, verbal discussions between LL and tenant. The resulting court case resulting in a £5k fine for the LL, the same covering some missing tenant's possessions.
My advice to the OP would be to take photographic evidence of the conditions within the property, firstly back dating, date & time of the equipment being used to take the photographs. In particular the running tap water, ceiling damage etc.
If the OP has no forwarding address for the tenant/s, search for mail that might offer a clue to a forwarding address. If no forwarding address is given/or found, then place an Abandonment Notice on an inside window near to the main entrance door, stating your contact details, and that you consider the property has been abandoned, and that unless their possessions (rubbish) are removed within 14 days, you/the OP will dispose of the same.
A tenancy only ends when there has either been an unequivocal agreement between the LL/Agent and the tenant/s to voluntary bring the tenancy to an end, the same in writing, and/or a Court Bailiff executes a possession order.
It is possible that the OP's tenant/s has not voluntary given up tenancy of the property, therefore the OP could find himself facing either a claim for unlawful possession, and/or harassment.
I once attempted to assist a LL with a claim brought by a local authority for unlawful possession, similar circumstances to the OP, verbal discussions between LL and tenant. The resulting court case resulting in a £5k fine for the LL, the same covering some missing tenant's possessions.
My advice to the OP would be to take photographic evidence of the conditions within the property, firstly back dating, date & time of the equipment being used to take the photographs. In particular the running tap water, ceiling damage etc.
If the OP has no forwarding address for the tenant/s, search for mail that might offer a clue to a forwarding address. If no forwarding address is given/or found, then place an Abandonment Notice on an inside window near to the main entrance door, stating your contact details, and that you consider the property has been abandoned, and that unless their possessions (rubbish) are removed within 14 days, you/the OP will dispose of the same.
ked up the system is. That there is any chance that the OP could be in bother when they are the problem would utterly stink. Austin_Metro said:
. When a tenant deliberately sets out not to pay and to damage a property (leaving a tap running and poo everywhere is just not acceptable) you’d think the Landlord deserves some protection.
https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-insurance/malicious-damage-by-tenants-coverhttps://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-i...
Groat said:
Austin_Metro said:
. When a tenant deliberately sets out not to pay and to damage a property (leaving a tap running and poo everywhere is just not acceptable) you’d think the Landlord deserves some protection.
https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-insurance/malicious-damage-by-tenants-coverhttps://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-i...
Fastpedeller said:
Hmm - I note this doesn't apply if the tenants are students! Do students have a bad record for malicious damage, or is this 'discrimination' by direct line. From our experience (Daughter was in a student HMO of 6 people) they are model tenants, and it would seem the income for the LL is also a lot higher c/f a long-term family.
I had an hmo for a while let to students, found a house full of males were fine. 5 females were a nightmare tbh, so much so that I only let it to males (near marine training college so plentiful male students catchment area)
Groat said:
https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-i...
https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-i...
That appears to be an insurance product for which a landlord can pay his or her money to achieve some degree of protection … https://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-i...
My hope was some basic legal rights for landlords that don’t take 6 months plus to achieve.
Austin_Metro said:
When a tenant deliberately sets out not to pay and to damage a property (leaving a tap running and poo everywhere is just not acceptable) you’d think the Landlord deserves some protection.
But the tenants will say they never left the tap running, it must have been the landlord when he illegally entered their home. They will also possibly say that they have personal possessions missing, the same that the OP opened himself up to when without permission entering the tenants home.Wings said:
Austin_Metro said:
When a tenant deliberately sets out not to pay and to damage a property (leaving a tap running and poo everywhere is just not acceptable) you’d think the Landlord deserves some protection.
But the tenants will say they never left the tap running, it must have been the landlord when he illegally entered their home. They will also possibly say that they have personal possessions missing, the same that the OP opened himself up to when without permission entering the tenants home.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff