Ask an Electrician anything...

Ask an Electrician anything...

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miniman

26,192 posts

268 months

Sunday 5th November 2023
quotequote all
In theory yes. However I have given up trying to drive LED strip transformers in my kitchen with top-end (Varilight Pro) dimmers as they just flicker and misbehave.

ruggedscotty

Original Poster:

5,782 posts

215 months

Sunday 5th November 2023
quotequote all
GTS_uk said:
ruggedscotty said:
ok....

oven rating. ? what does the instruction book state as the feed for each oven

existing you said 3 pin plug. is it a 13A style plug ?

32A RCD - unless its an rcbo then an RCD isnt an overcurrent, its differential. more than 30mA device will trip. 32a is the rating of the load capacity.

Ive seen ovens wired back to consumer unit and individual 16A MCB for each one. id run 2.5mm twin and e to the outlets. over rated but i dont know how far from the kitchen your consumer unit is.

what your saying is to swap out the socket to spur, that would be fine if cable is flex. i like to keep plug socket though as it lets me pull out the oven for cleaning fixing etc.
Thanks for your help here.

According to the manual - The max loading is 3.5kW
My existing ovens have 13A style plugs, and you're right, wrong terminology from me re RCD. 32A on each oven 'breaker' in the consumer unit.
New oven says 16A, so they may need changing. Also says "hard wired only'.
For reference, this is the new oven in question - https://www.aeg.co.uk/kitchen/cooking/ovens/oven/b...

I'd assume as they are plugs, on an oven circuit and on a new(ish) build - they should be wired with 2.5mm twin and earth already? I guess I'll see when I take the oven out!

On the assumption that's the case, and with a switch to 16A, sounds like it should be ok?

Thanks again for your help here!

Looks like I should be
So, in principle, swapping the socket for a spur and
Spur means a spur from the ringmain. Spur has to be fused. 13A. there are details in the 18th edition for the requirements of electrical installations.

You can get a connection point - different from a spur.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/crabtree-instinct-20a-u...

put this were the socket was hardwire the oven into here. This goes to the switch and then back to the consumer. you need protection for this MCB sized to protect the circuit and appliance.

DoubleSix

11,921 posts

182 months

Sunday 5th November 2023
quotequote all
miniman said:
In theory yes. However I have given up trying to drive LED strip transformers in my kitchen with top-end (Varilight Pro) dimmers as they just flicker and misbehave.
Really, that’s disappointing.

My electrician said i should go ahead and get the fancy switches inwant and he would fit the Varilight dimmers into it…. But your saying that hasn’t worked either?

miniman

26,192 posts

268 months

Sunday 5th November 2023
quotequote all
DoubleSix said:
Really, that’s disappointing.

My electrician said i should go ahead and get the fancy switches inwant and he would fit the Varilight dimmers into it…. But your saying that hasn’t worked either?
I have a 9-way grid. The V-Pro dimmers work fine with GU10 downlighters but I have given up on using them to drive LED strip which I have under counter, and in roof lantern. When they worked, the amount of dimming available was trivial, and on anything other than max brightness they tended to flicker.

GTS_uk

109 posts

109 months

Sunday 5th November 2023
quotequote all
ruggedscotty said:
Spur means a spur from the ringmain. Spur has to be fused. 13A. there are details in the 18th edition for the requirements of electrical installations.

You can get a connection point - different from a spur.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/crabtree-instinct-20a-u...

put this were the socket was hardwire the oven into here. This goes to the switch and then back to the consumer. you need protection for this MCB sized to protect the circuit and appliance.
Great. Thanks for your help. Appreciate it!

dhutch

15,175 posts

203 months

Monday 6th November 2023
quotequote all
Yes, spur is a branch off a ring. You can have one socket outlet (single or double) unfused, but any more needs a 13A FCU.
A radial is a single cable from the consumer unit feeding a line of sockets, without making a ring at all. Typically on a 16A or 20A MCB.
A dedicated feed is a single cable which goes all the way from the consumer unit to a single appliance, such as a large oven/hob or electric shower.

bmwmike

7,342 posts

114 months

Monday 6th November 2023
quotequote all
Having just extended the ring in my garage and added 6 new double sockets i've rather enjoyed doing the work. We are due to have an extension next year and the quotes for electrical work are eye watering, including adding new cabling for induction hobs etc. I've had some terrible unsafe work done by NICEIC chaps in the past which has led to a bad taste in my mouth for future work which got me thinking.

How much effort is involved in me doing my own Part P cert so I can do my own electric work at my own house and have it signed off by me? Do i need anything else before i can do a replacement CU?



Edit - strictly talking paperwork here, not tools etc.

ruggedscotty

Original Poster:

5,782 posts

215 months

Monday 6th November 2023
quotequote all
bmwmike said:
Having just extended the ring in my garage and added 6 new double sockets i've rather enjoyed doing the work. We are due to have an extension next year and the quotes for electrical work are eye watering, including adding new cabling for induction hobs etc. I've had some terrible unsafe work done by NICEIC chaps in the past which has led to a bad taste in my mouth for future work which got me thinking.

How much effort is involved in me doing my own Part P cert so I can do my own electric work at my own house and have it signed off by me? Do i need anything else before i can do a replacement CU?



Edit - strictly talking paperwork here, not tools etc.
https://electrical.theiet.org/bs-7671/building-regulations/part-p-england-and-wales/certification-schemes/

bmwmike

7,342 posts

114 months

Monday 6th November 2023
quotequote all
ruggedscotty said:
Thanks.

link said:
The competency requirements for the Part P schemes are specified in the Electrotechnical Assessment Scheme (EAS)
but the link is broken so I can't get the requirements. Lol.

Can you give me an idea of how much effort it would be to go from DIY to Part P and cost?

I see I need to join niceic so I can look at those reqs too, presume it's a paid sub.

Is it a bonkers idea? I've got plenty of free time in my regular job I could probably do a few hours a day as a sparkie too idea

Edited by bmwmike on Monday 6th November 21:35

Teddy Lop

8,301 posts

73 months

Tuesday 7th November 2023
quotequote all
miniman said:
I have a 9-way grid. The V-Pro dimmers work fine with GU10 downlighters but I have given up on using them to drive LED strip which I have under counter, and in roof lantern. When they worked, the amount of dimming available was trivial, and on anything other than max brightness they tended to flicker.
V pro dimmers have a program mode by which you can adjust low dimming cutoff and dimming modes. Google it. If they're definitely dimmable drivers (technically it isn't a transformer that led strip uses) then it should dim but there are different techs that don't all talk nicely to each other, hence why I carry a box of several different brands of dimmer module.

Teddy Lop

8,301 posts

73 months

Tuesday 7th November 2023
quotequote all
bmwmike said:
Having just extended the ring in my garage and added 6 new double sockets i've rather enjoyed doing the work. We are due to have an extension next year and the quotes for electrical work are eye watering, including adding new cabling for induction hobs etc. I've had some terrible unsafe work done by NICEIC chaps in the past which has led to a bad taste in my mouth for future work which got me thinking.

How much effort is involved in me doing my own Part P cert so I can do my own electric work at my own house and have it signed off by me? Do i need anything else before i can do a replacement CU?



Edit - strictly talking paperwork here, not tools etc.
I'm not sure what the rules and processes are and it varies by borough, but there should be a way that you can do your own install and have it signed off by BC with no need to be regd. Speak to your local BC. Getting regd would be a PITA for a one off. it's a PITA for a full-time sparksbiglaugh

DoubleSix

11,921 posts

182 months

Tuesday 7th November 2023
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
V pro dimmers have a program mode by which you can adjust low dimming cutoff and dimming modes. Google it. If they're definitely dimmable drivers (technically it isn't a transformer that led strip uses) then it should dim but there are different techs that don't all talk nicely to each other, hence why I carry a box of several different brands of dimmer module.
Thanks for this.

I spoke with the kitchen supplier today (Schmidt) and they were very confident that the strips are commonly dimmed as their drivers are dimmable.

They’re gonna drop one in so i can test.

miniman

26,192 posts

268 months

Tuesday 7th November 2023
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
miniman said:
I have a 9-way grid. The V-Pro dimmers work fine with GU10 downlighters but I have given up on using them to drive LED strip which I have under counter, and in roof lantern. When they worked, the amount of dimming available was trivial, and on anything other than max brightness they tended to flicker.
V pro dimmers have a program mode by which you can adjust low dimming cutoff and dimming modes. Google it. If they're definitely dimmable drivers (technically it isn't a transformer that led strip uses) then it should dim but there are different techs that don't all talk nicely to each other, hence why I carry a box of several different brands of dimmer module.
Yeah I reset them many times and confirmed the driver was dimmable. Never worked properly.

Teddy Lop

8,301 posts

73 months

Tuesday 7th November 2023
quotequote all
DoubleSix said:
Teddy Lop said:
V pro dimmers have a program mode by which you can adjust low dimming cutoff and dimming modes. Google it. If they're definitely dimmable drivers (technically it isn't a transformer that led strip uses) then it should dim but there are different techs that don't all talk nicely to each other, hence why I carry a box of several different brands of dimmer module.
Thanks for this.

I spoke with the kitchen supplier today (Schmidt) and they were very confident that the strips are commonly dimmed as their drivers are dimmable.

They’re gonna drop one in so i can test.
A salesman, designer, or someone with the feintest idea what they're talking about?

Some stuff particularly the kind of stuff supplied by a kitchen outfit can be quite different and dims using a post-transformer/PSU controller, so while "it dims" the driver is a non-dimmable unit that needs a fixed supply.

DoubleSix

11,921 posts

182 months

Tuesday 7th November 2023
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
DoubleSix said:
Teddy Lop said:
V pro dimmers have a program mode by which you can adjust low dimming cutoff and dimming modes. Google it. If they're definitely dimmable drivers (technically it isn't a transformer that led strip uses) then it should dim but there are different techs that don't all talk nicely to each other, hence why I carry a box of several different brands of dimmer module.
Thanks for this.

I spoke with the kitchen supplier today (Schmidt) and they were very confident that the strips are commonly dimmed as their drivers are dimmable.

They’re gonna drop one in so i can test.
A salesman, designer, or someone with the feintest idea what they're talking about?

Some stuff particularly the kind of stuff supplied by a kitchen outfit can be quite different and dims using a post-transformer/PSU controller, so while "it dims" the driver is a non-dimmable unit that needs a fixed supply.
He was the installation manager and seemed to have a good grasp of the issues. I’ll report back after he drops a unit in…

Interestingly ive ordered a load of led strips to be plastered in as part of our extension project and they come from a company that supplies dimmers so it is certainly a thing that should be achievable.

dhutch

15,175 posts

203 months

Wednesday 8th November 2023
quotequote all
Plastered in? How do you replace when they fail?

Tim O

560 posts

175 months

Tuesday 14th November 2023
quotequote all
Advice sought on getting power for an AGA therostat, ideally from a fused spur.

We currently have a 2 ring Bosch PKC345EGB 2900W ceramic hob sunk into a granite worktop. Power appears to be spurred off a ring main with 2.5mm cable to a 13A fused switch located in a base unit below.

I need to fit a 13A socket adjacent or near to it for a small transformer to power an oil fired AGA thermostat.

Should I fit a fused switch 13A + socket combo like this:

https://www.directtradesupplies.co.uk/product.php/...

(that's the only one of that type I can find, most are not fused)

or would it be acceptable to remove the fused switch and fit a 2 gang 13A socket in its place, and fit a 13A plug to the hob lead. The thermostat transformer in the second socket. This is the cheaper option as I have a socket and back box already here.

Would very much like to do it properly, and to meet regs. Thoughts, please.

Thanks in advance.

PS does the double socket have to be dual pole of will single pole suffice?

Edited by Tim O on Tuesday 14th November 16:09

souper

2,441 posts

217 months

Tuesday 14th November 2023
quotequote all
Brother has a first floor flat, maisonette. the main fuse keeps blowing on the ground floor flats incomer fuse.

Brothers flat is supplied power from the flat below, so incomer ground floor flat 60-80amp fuse then to the ground floor flat consumer unit, from there a cable runs up to my brothers flat above to feed his consumer unit.

This was put in probably 60~ or more years ago by the Electricity Board the fuse kept blowing and the DNO disconnected the tails to his Flat, DNO say that the riser cable is the responsibility of my brother. Is that true? I thought the demarcation point is everything before the meter is the DNO's responsibility??

No ideas for a name

2,390 posts

92 months

Tuesday 14th November 2023
quotequote all
souper said:
Brother has a first floor flat, maisonette. the main fuse keeps blowing on the ground floor flats incomer fuse.

Brothers flat is supplied power from the flat below, so incomer ground floor flat 60-80amp fuse then to the ground floor flat consumer unit, from there a cable runs up to my brothers flat above to feed his consumer unit.

This was put in probably 60~ or more years ago by the Electricity Board the fuse kept blowing and the DNO disconnected the tails to his Flat, DNO say that the riser cable is the responsibility of my brother. Is that true? I thought the demarcation point is everything before the meter is the DNO's responsibility??
That sounds very odd.
Does he have his own supply contract with an electricity supplier or is it paid to a landlord who is sub-metering?

souper

2,441 posts

217 months

Tuesday 14th November 2023
quotequote all
No ideas for a name said:
souper said:
Brother has a first floor flat, maisonette. the main fuse keeps blowing on the ground floor flats incomer fuse.

Brothers flat is supplied power from the flat below, so incomer ground floor flat 60-80amp fuse then to the ground floor flat consumer unit, from there a cable runs up to my brothers flat above to feed his consumer unit.

This was put in probably 60~ or more years ago by the Electricity Board the fuse kept blowing and the DNO disconnected the tails to his Flat, DNO say that the riser cable is the responsibility of my brother. Is that true? I thought the demarcation point is everything before the meter is the DNO's responsibility??
That sounds very odd.
Does he have his own supply contract with an electricity supplier or is it paid to a landlord who is sub-metering?
Yes, he has his own electric supply it's just how it's wired, the flat is rented out so he got a call at 2am and the DNO were the ones who disconnected the riser cables to his flat from flat below. I would assume supply is split after the ground floor incomer, via Henley blocks or similar.

He has an electrician going tomorrow, the flat below is borrowing an extension cable to power the fridge upstairs. Lol.

But I would still assume that its the DNO responsibility to supply his meter with power, I said you should get the sparky to put an isolation switch up in his flat next to his board so he can safely isolate his flat for future use upgrades. uploaded image from flat below the brown cable going through the pipe and shorted out is the cable supplying my brothers upstairs flat. Also if he's sharing the incomer fuse he isn't getting the full 60-80amps protection anyway neither is the ground floor flat.


Edited by souper on Tuesday 14th November 18:45