Best Wifi enabled thermostat

[Trustmeimadoctor]

Well I pulled tado out last year and went with evohome but just had a demand for rental payment from tado saying if I don't pay in 3 days then it's debt collection time!

[neth27]

I have had the Evohome for a couple of years now. Never had any problems with it. It works very well. My mates a heating engineer and he connected the receiver part to the boiler, i done the rest. It was pretty easy with the set up wizard, swapping all the trv valves was also simple enough.

John..

[shady lee]

I must say so far I'm very impressed with evohome, like others have said...it just works!

There's a over the air update coming early next year.



The only bug Bear I find is that it doesn't let you know what room is calling for heat. But in the Jan update that will be a feature, along with outside temp

[Trustmeimadoctor]

Well tado don't answer phone or email at all 12 phone calls and message left and sent more emails nothing at all!

[cay]

Trustmeimadoctor said:

Well tado don't answer phone or email at all 12 phone calls and message left and sent more emails nothing at all!

I do wonder if they are having issues.

When I got mine a long while back the support was great and they answered immediately.

Last email I sent got no reply.

They still seem to issue software updates, either they have too many customers for support - or are about to go bust!

[Trustmeimadoctor]

I'm thinking that. Seemingly I owe them a payment for this year from September last year. Seems I can only pay via iban I don't mind paying as seemingly I haven't cancelled even tho I thought I hadn't but I really need to talk to someone first!

[DoubleSix]

Im sure it’s on their tado list...

[Trustmeimadoctor]

Budum tish

[essayer]

Can Tado just stop your heating working if they feel like it?

[DMMboringaccountant]

Good thread. I am just looking at installing a smart heating system in a 4000 sq ft house, UFH + 22rads. Brick internal walls, some double brick with steel ties internally. Wifi connection needs boosters in every room!!!

I was going to do evohome which I have liked for a long time and contacted Honeywell to see if it would work. They replied to say that they would not recommend evohome in this environment.

Following more research I am probably going to go for GeniusHub as they supply range extenders as well.

Does anyone using this system have any range issues

[Trustmeimadoctor]

essayer said:

Can Tado just stop your heating working if they feel like it?

Of course they can

[Uncool]

As this seems to be THE wifi thermostat thread, I hope you can answer some questions I have.

I'm pretty set on evohome for my choice of wifi thermostat, as I've had 'normal' Honeywell gear in the past and I trust them, and I'm not so worried about geofencing etc. However, I'm a little confused about how it'll replace what I have.

So, I have a normal system boiler, with a vented cylinder and S plan configuration (so 2 way valves for each of HW and CH). A pretty normal setup. My house is a 1990 build with the original dial thermostat in the hall at the front of the house and the boiler and CH/HW controller in the kitchen at the back. The airing cupboard houses the HW cylinder. Most of the radiators are already equiped with manual TRVs. I want to put evohome TRVs on all of the radiators.

But, some things are confusing me:

1) My lounge has 2 radiators - each with a TRV. Obviously as above each of these will be replaced with an evohome one, but can the system deal with one room with 2 TRVs? Which will be the 'source of truth' for the temperature in the room? (I like to keep the rad behind the sofa on a lower setting than the one under the window so we don't get too hot from sitting near it).

2) I've been through the system chooser guide on the Honeywell website and it recommended the controller, TRVs etc, and also the HW cylinder kit. Why is the HW cylinder kit needed? It's already got a thermostat on it that's wired in and working, so doesn't that just wire into evohome?

3) Where does the evohome controller 'go'? I'd prefer it to be wallmounted, so does it go in the hall replacing the wall thermostat that's already there, or does it go in the kitchen replacing the controller there? Or does the existing controller remain in situ? (although I'm not sure why if evohome is controlling water?)

4) Finally, as I already said I have an S-plan system. One 2 way valve for the HW, and another for the CH. However, I have a bypass for both of these that loops around to the radiator in the bathroom. So if the boiler and pump are running at all (for either CH, HW or both) then the radiator in the bathroom warms up and is regulated by the TRV there. So, do the evohome TRVs continue to regulate temperature, even when they're not set to call for heat? So say it's 3pm in the afternoon, the HW is set to come on and the bathroom rad is set to 21 degrees. Will the TRV continue to operate and regulate the temperature despite the fact that the CH isn't turned on at that time? Or is this 'bypass' a problem for evohome?

Thanks for anyone who can shed light on the above!

KR

Simon

[DoubleSix]

DMMboringaccountant said:

Good thread. I am just looking at installing a smart heating system in a 4000 sq ft house, UFH + 22rads. Brick internal walls, some double brick with steel ties internally. Wifi connection needs boosters in every room!!!

I was going to do evohome which I have liked for a long time and contacted Honeywell to see if it would work. They replied to say that they would not recommend evohome in this environment.

Following more research I am probably going to go for GeniusHub as they supply range extenders as well.

Does anyone using this system have any range issues

Interesting, much like my own position - disappointed to learn Honeywell wouldn't recommend.

OT - Incidentally, Google Wifi totally sorted our previously problematic house out.

[essayer]

Uncool said:

1) My lounge has 2 radiators - each with a TRV. Obviously as above each of these will be replaced with an evohome one, but can the system deal with one room with 2 TRVs? Which will be the 'source of truth' for the temperature in the room? (I like to keep the rad behind the sofa on a lower setting than the one under the window so we don't get too hot from sitting near it).

You can have multiple HR92s in a zone, and you can configure a zone as multiple room or single room; in multiple mode, all HR92s operate based on their detected temperature; in single room, the first one you bind provides the source. Or, you can add a separate thermostat like a Y87, which might work better if rads are behind sofas etc

Uncool said:

2) I've been through the system chooser guide on the Honeywell website and it recommended the controller, TRVs etc, and also the HW cylinder kit. Why is the HW cylinder kit needed? It's already got a thermostat on it that's wired in and working, so doesn't that just wire into evohome?

The HW kit detects the temperature and reports back to the controller. Your existing kit will just open and close a contact according to the thermostat. Most people leave the existing stat/overheat stat wired in series with the valve and use a BDR91 bound as the HW relay.

Uncool said:

3) Where does the evohome controller 'go'? I'd prefer it to be wallmounted, so does it go in the hall replacing the wall thermostat that's already there, or does it go in the kitchen replacing the controller there? Or does the existing controller remain in situ? (although I'm not sure why if evohome is controlling water?)

Anywhere you want, you can wall mount with a kit. It just needs power. The controller can act as a thermostat for a zone but some say it heats up when charging.
Your existing timer/controller will be removed and the zone valve (hw) and boiler control are wired into BDR91 relays

Uncool said:

4) Finally, as I already said I have an S-plan system. One 2 way valve for the HW, and another for the CH. However, I have a bypass for both of these that loops around to the radiator in the bathroom. So if the boiler and pump are running at all (for either CH, HW or both) then the radiator in the bathroom warms up and is regulated by the TRV there. So, do the evohome TRVs continue to regulate temperature, even when they're not set to call for heat? So say it's 3pm in the afternoon, the HW is set to come on and the bathroom rad is set to 21 degrees. Will the TRV continue to operate and regulate the temperature despite the fact that the CH isn't turned on at that time? Or is this 'bypass' a problem for evohome?

In a full Evohome setup you lock open the CH circuit and fit HR92s on every radiator. Effectively you get an even bigger bypass! Your bathroom just becomes another zone to call for heat. You might need to adjust lock shields to manage the flow rates though?

Edited by essayer on Saturday 11th November 00:10

Edited by essayer on Saturday 11th November 00:13

[essayer]

DMMboringaccountant said:

Good thread. I am just looking at installing a smart heating system in a 4000 sq ft house, UFH + 22rads. Brick internal walls, some double brick with steel ties internally. Wifi connection needs boosters in every room!!!

I am using Evohome in a house not quite that size but extended lots and so plenty of double brick walls etc. No issues with range, remember Evo uses a much lower frequency.

Biggest limitation will probably be number of zones - 12 is the limit on one system, each UFH circuit needs to be its own zone, you can put multiple rads in a zone and operate it single or multi room as per my previous post.


What’s the max distance between a sensible controller location and your boiler/tank/furthest rad?

[Uncool]

Thanks Essayer, this is really useful information.

Just a couple of follow-ups if I may?

essayer said:

Uncool said:

1) My lounge has 2 radiators - each with a TRV. Obviously as above each of these will be replaced with an evohome one, but can the system deal with one room with 2 TRVs? Which will be the 'source of truth' for the temperature in the room? (I like to keep the rad behind the sofa on a lower setting than the one under the window so we don't get too hot from sitting near it).

You can have multiple HR92s in a zone, and you can configure a zone as multiple room or single room; in multiple mode, all HR92s operate based on their detected temperature; in single room, the first one you bind provides the source. Or, you can add a separate thermostat like a Y87, which might work better if rads are behind sofas etc

Uncool said:

2) I've been through the system chooser guide on the Honeywell website and it recommended the controller, TRVs etc, and also the HW cylinder kit. Why is the HW cylinder kit needed? It's already got a thermostat on it that's wired in and working, so doesn't that just wire into evohome?

The HW kit detects the temperature and reports back to the controller. Your existing kit will just open and close a contact according to the thermostat. Most people leave the existing stat/overheat stat wired in series with the valve and use a BDR91 bound as the HW relay.

Uncool said:

3) Where does the evohome controller 'go'? I'd prefer it to be wallmounted, so does it go in the hall replacing the wall thermostat that's already there, or does it go in the kitchen replacing the controller there? Or does the existing controller remain in situ? (although I'm not sure why if evohome is controlling water?)

Anywhere you want, you can wall mount with a kit. It just needs power. The controller can act as a thermostat for a zone but some say it heats up when charging.
Your existing timer/controller will be removed and the zone valve (hw) and boiler control are wired into BDR91 relays

Uncool said:

4) Finally, as I already said I have an S-plan system. One 2 way valve for the HW, and another for the CH. However, I have a bypass for both of these that loops around to the radiator in the bathroom. So if the boiler and pump are running at all (for either CH, HW or both) then the radiator in the bathroom warms up and is regulated by the TRV there. So, do the evohome TRVs continue to regulate temperature, even when they're not set to call for heat? So say it's 3pm in the afternoon, the HW is set to come on and the bathroom rad is set to 21 degrees. Will the TRV continue to operate and regulate the temperature despite the fact that the CH isn't turned on at that time? Or is this 'bypass' a problem for evohome?

In a full Evohome setup you lock open the CH circuit and fit HR92s on every radiator. Effectively you get an even bigger bypass! Your bathroom just becomes another zone to call for heat. You might need to adjust lock shields to manage the flow rates though?

1) OK, so in a single zone, multiple TRV mode, both radiators will get equally hot to get the room up to temperature of the TRV that was bound first? Can I calibrate one so it runs sightly 'cooler' than the other?

2) That makes sense. So the evohome controller knows the temp of the hot water, rather than just saying 'turn it on' and the local cylinder (dumb) thermostat clicking off when when it's up to temperature. When you say 'Most people leave the existing stat/overheat stat wired in series with the valve and use a BDR91 bound as the HW relay.'. So you mean most people don't plump for the proper hot water kit, so they don't know the temperature of it?

3) Right. I think I'd just like to leave the controller as just that, and not a thermostat too. I think I read I can put a power supply in a 40mm pattress and wall mount it, so presumably that can go where the existing controller is? Is it still temporarily removable for programming if I do that? And presumably the existing wiring in that spot that goes up to the 2 ways, thermostat etc will become redundant?

4) When you say 'lock open' is that electronically, or do I physically remove the 2 way valve head and remove it from the circuit, and just manually spin the valve open? I'll be replacing all the valves on the rads too with up to date honeywell jobbies as I have these awful dual entry microbore things that you can't even buy anymore.

Really appreciate your help with this, thanks!

[Alucidnation]

I am still running two V1 Nests but they are a bit redundant now as we have a WC boiler, plus they are very laggy at waking up even after a software update on the 13th October.

If anyone is thinking that they will be replacing their boiler at some point in the near future, i would suggest saving your money on these fancy thermostats and put that towards the WC for the boiler.

Fantastic system and is an immediate saving on your gas usage.

Edited by Alucidnation on Saturday 11th November 08:15

[clockworks]

When I fitted Evohome to mum's S plan system I got an electrician neighbour of hers to wire up the BDR91s, and I fitted the wireless stuff and did the programming. He wired the relays to the 2 port valves, so the relays controlled the valves, and the valves controlled the boiler - effectively replacing the existing programmer. Pretty sure this is how Honeywell say S plan should be done.

I hadn't considered disabling the heating 2 port valve and wiring the relay direct to the boiler. At the time, I didn't know how 2 port valves worked.
I do now, as hers has failed. It opens slowly, but won't close, so the boiler is running continuously. I got it working with a bit of WD40, but it's bound to seize up again.

If I bypass the 2 port valve in the wiring centre (relay switched live to existing 2 port valve switch output connection, disconnect 2 port valve wires), is it best to try and remove the 2 port valve control box, or just remove the return springs and open the valve manually?
It's a Honeywell valve with the pip on the cover, so it should be removable .

My plan was to just replace the 2 port valve or control head. It might be a good idea to do this still, so as not to confuse future owners. That would also mean we could remove the Evohome setup and sell or reuse it when the house is sold, reinstating the original programmer and TRVs. The house is on the market.

[Alucidnation]

If I understand your post, you can’t really do away the the heating valve as in the summer you will still have heat passing through when you the hot water is calling.

You could do away with the programmer on any system if you have an app or thermostat that controls both zones.

[essayer]

Uncool said:

1) OK, so in a single zone, multiple TRV mode, both radiators will get equally hot to get the room up to temperature of the TRV that was bound first? Can I calibrate one so it runs sightly 'cooler' than the other?

I’m not sure, I guess you could turn down the lock shield slightly so it would get less flow? There might be something in the HR92 manual if you google it.

Uncool said:

2) That makes sense. So the evohome controller knows the temp of the hot water, rather than just saying 'turn it on' and the local cylinder (dumb) thermostat clicking off when when it's up to temperature. When you say 'Most people leave the existing stat/overheat stat wired in series with the valve and use a BDR91 bound as the HW relay.'. So you mean most people don't plump for the proper hot water kit, so they don't know the temperature of it?

No, you need the hot water kit for Evohome to present the hot water control options. I mean that for safety reasons you leave the existing stats wired up so that if for some reason Evohome goes mad and keeps asking for heat, there’s another way to cut off hot water to the tank, as the overheat stat will cut off the signal from the BDR91 and close the gate valve for DHW.

Uncool said:

3) Right. I think I'd just like to leave the controller as just that, and not a thermostat too. I think I read I can put a power supply in a 40mm pattress and wall mount it, so presumably that can go where the existing controller is? Is it still temporarily removable for programming if I do that? And presumably the existing wiring in that spot that goes up to the 2 ways, thermostat etc will become redundant?

Exactly. Yes it’s always removable.

Uncool said:

4) When you say 'lock open' is that electronically, or do I physically remove the 2 way valve head and remove it from the circuit, and just manually spin the valve open? I'll be replacing all the valves on the rads too with up to date honeywell jobbies as I have these awful dual entry microbore things that you can't even buy anymore.

Really appreciate your help with this, thanks!

Permanently open, uncontrolled. There’s different schools of thought, depending on how you have things configured.

If you fit a boiler relay, you don’t need to have a CH relay, you can leave the valve opened mechanically and electricals isolated; or you can just wire the valve to mains so that whenever the system is powered, the valve is open; not sure what happens if you just remove the head, but either way there is no need to open/close the CH system as that task has now moved to all the individual TRVs.

If you don’t fit a boiler relay, then the boiler needs to be fired from the CH or DHW valves being fully opened; same as a S plan system. I think in this case evohome will operate the CH valve and/or DHW valves as required.