Grade II Listed House
Discussion
mk1fan said:
I would only buy a Listed Building if I had a genuine interest in the history of either the property or the style.
Although features are mentioned in listing details the listing applies to the whole property including curtalidge. Conservation officers range from great to stonewalled. Remember although you've bought the freehold and paid a premium for it being of historic interest you have significantly less rights to do works than a regular homeowner.
It is going to be more expensive than a regular home but then again if you've bought the house because of my initial point then that's not really an issue.
^^ This.Although features are mentioned in listing details the listing applies to the whole property including curtalidge. Conservation officers range from great to stonewalled. Remember although you've bought the freehold and paid a premium for it being of historic interest you have significantly less rights to do works than a regular homeowner.
It is going to be more expensive than a regular home but then again if you've bought the house because of my initial point then that's not really an issue.
The worst of the conservation officers have the attitude that they've graciously allowed you to live in their building. They have very little in the way of regulation and have absolute power over decisions they make, including the ability to send you to jail.
That said, it's rarely that extreme. Expect a certain amount of inconsistency in the decisions they make (they have to bounce between a lot of projects, so conversations can get forgotten), delays in doing things and some extra work fitting their requirements into the building regs framework. If you're not planning to carry out any major changes, the worst you'll experience is hassle over replacing windows.
The biggest downside is that it can make material improvements (double glazing, insulation, heating) more difficult and/or expensive. If the house is cold and drafty now, it's likely to continue to cost to keep warm in winter. That's part of the period charm though, so you should already know what you're letting yourself in for.
Note the 'including curtilage' - that means that garages and even garden sheds can be within the conservation remit. Their duty is to preserve the historic setting of the building as much as the building itself.
Simpo Two said:
How are the restrictions enforced? For example if you put up a Sky dish, would a little man with a clipboard come round and fine you £100?
When it copmes to conservation issues there are plenty of members of the public who go round 'inspecting' things to check for 'breaches'. There is a South coast town that has a quite extensive conservation area. A retired lady would on a daily basis patrol the streets checking for unauthorised works and breaches before reporting them to the Council.Simpo Two said:
z4chris99 said:
We can't put up a sky dish 
How are the restrictions enforced? For example if you put up a Sky dish, would a little man with a clipboard come round and fine you £100?
ds don't have a fit. that said the mother is now head of village council planning or some b
ks As said you can put it on a pole in the garden.
Thanks for this guys. It's all good food for thought. What about home insurance? Is it easy to get cover, or are the premiums huge? I would have thought insurers might flinch at the thought of having to replace like for like in these properties.
One of the features mentioned in the property we are looking at is the stone tiled roof. Having watched that Caroline Quention restoration show yesterday, where a couple spent over £200k on a stone roof, I'm beginning to see that some major research will be required.
One of the features mentioned in the property we are looking at is the stone tiled roof. Having watched that Caroline Quention restoration show yesterday, where a couple spent over £200k on a stone roof, I'm beginning to see that some major research will be required.
blueST said:
Assuming we get an offer on our own home, we will be seriously house hunting soon. One of the houses we have short-listed is grade II listed. We haven't viewed it yet.
Now, whenever I mention we might look at a listed house to one of the many armchair experts I associate with, much sucking of teeth and shaking of heads ensues. They proceed to tell me it will be financially ruinous, put me in the deepest of depressions and make me quake with rage every time the words "English" and "Heritage" are spoken within earshot.
I looked up the house's entry on the Heritage List, which didn't offer much info other than providing a brief description of some of the interesting period features. Are these the things that are protected, and likely to cause hassle should they need work? Or is it more wide ranging than that?
The house is at the very top of our budget, and I wouldn't have a bottomless pit of disposable income for maintenance, especially for the first 12-24 months.
In short, are the nay sayers right? I would love to hear advice from anyone who has bought, lives in or works on grade II listed houses.
Our place is Grade 2 listed. Its a 17/18th centuary thatched cottage, and was listed in the 1980's. Now, whenever I mention we might look at a listed house to one of the many armchair experts I associate with, much sucking of teeth and shaking of heads ensues. They proceed to tell me it will be financially ruinous, put me in the deepest of depressions and make me quake with rage every time the words "English" and "Heritage" are spoken within earshot.
I looked up the house's entry on the Heritage List, which didn't offer much info other than providing a brief description of some of the interesting period features. Are these the things that are protected, and likely to cause hassle should they need work? Or is it more wide ranging than that?
The house is at the very top of our budget, and I wouldn't have a bottomless pit of disposable income for maintenance, especially for the first 12-24 months.
In short, are the nay sayers right? I would love to hear advice from anyone who has bought, lives in or works on grade II listed houses.
For us, the listing is nothing more than a bit of a pain, with attached finacial penalties.
For example, the 'old' part of our house has aluminium double glazing. Looks s
te. Needs replacing. I could only replace it with wooden casements now. I would probably win the argument for retaining the double glazing, but I couldnt replace like for like (well i wouldnt want to). So you're probably looking at £3000 per window for suitable replacements, where as if it was a modern house it woud be half this cost.The 'new' part of our house (1980's extension) has single glazed wooden windows. Cheep rubbish frames that are rotting, and glass that lets out all the heat. Even though this is part of a modern extension, upgrading the glass to double glazed would be a struggle to get through. Would also be forced to use wood, not something that looks like wood from 20 feet away. This despite the fact that no one can see our extension windows without being on our land. No one.
So you're looking at roughly double to triple the cost for replacing windows (and doors) compared to a contempory building.
That said however, if our current windows and doors were on a modern building, the'd look 'end of life', where as a period property can get away with things looking old and tatty as its all charachter!
TTmonkey said:
Our place is Grade 2 listed. Its a 17/18th centuary thatched cottage, and was listed in the 1980's.
For us, the listing is nothing more than a bit of a pain, with attached finacial penalties.
For example, the 'old' part of our house has aluminium double glazing. Looks ste. Needs replacing. I could only replace it with wooden casements now. I would probably win the argument for retaining the double glazing, but I couldnt replace like for like (well i wouldnt want to). So you're probably looking at £3000 per window for suitable replacements, where as if it was a modern house it woud be half this cost.
The 'new' part of our house (1980's extension) has single glazed wooden windows. Cheep rubbish frames that are rotting, and glass that lets out all the heat. Even though this is part of a modern extension, upgrading the glass to double glazed would be a struggle to get through. Would also be forced to use wood, not something that looks like wood from 20 feet away. This despite the fact that no one can see our extension windows without being on our land. No one.
So you're looking at roughly double to triple the cost for replacing windows (and doors) compared to a contempory building.
That said however, if our current windows and doors were on a modern building, the'd look 'end of life', where as a period property can get away with things looking old and tatty as its all charachter!
I understand and quite like the idea of preserving the interesting features and character of an old building. Its those things that make the house what it is. What I can't get my head around is the perverse logic that stops you updating the windows in the 80s extension. Fair enough they might want a quick check to make sure you weren't going to install something completely gruesome, and maybe insist on wood, but why would it matter if it was double glazed or not?For us, the listing is nothing more than a bit of a pain, with attached finacial penalties.
For example, the 'old' part of our house has aluminium double glazing. Looks s
te. Needs replacing. I could only replace it with wooden casements now. I would probably win the argument for retaining the double glazing, but I couldnt replace like for like (well i wouldnt want to). So you're probably looking at £3000 per window for suitable replacements, where as if it was a modern house it woud be half this cost.The 'new' part of our house (1980's extension) has single glazed wooden windows. Cheep rubbish frames that are rotting, and glass that lets out all the heat. Even though this is part of a modern extension, upgrading the glass to double glazed would be a struggle to get through. Would also be forced to use wood, not something that looks like wood from 20 feet away. This despite the fact that no one can see our extension windows without being on our land. No one.
So you're looking at roughly double to triple the cost for replacing windows (and doors) compared to a contempory building.
That said however, if our current windows and doors were on a modern building, the'd look 'end of life', where as a period property can get away with things looking old and tatty as its all charachter!
blueST said:
One of the features mentioned in the property we are looking at is the stone tiled roof. Having watched that Caroline Quention restoration show yesterday, where a couple spent over £200k on a stone roof, I'm beginning to see that some major research will be required.
If you're doing something like fixing the roof, you will have to get everything approved.If you ever want to discover which of two options is the most expensive, show samples to a conservation officer. "Should I use these tiles, or these?", I swear they can smell cost.
Grade II late 17thC here.
Timber casement double glazing was not an issue for us on an attached outbuildings conversion, However the glazing bar width had to be 12mm, which rules out most double glazing which needs 20mm+. However there is now a number of windows manufactures which specialise in listed windows. Whilst they cost more than an off the shelf mass produced hardwood window they aren’t x3.
Timber casement double glazing was not an issue for us on an attached outbuildings conversion, However the glazing bar width had to be 12mm, which rules out most double glazing which needs 20mm+. However there is now a number of windows manufactures which specialise in listed windows. Whilst they cost more than an off the shelf mass produced hardwood window they aren’t x3.
blueST said:
I understand and quite like the idea of preserving the interesting features and character of an old building. Its those things that make the house what it is. What I can't get my head around is the perverse logic that stops you updating the windows in the 80s extension. Fair enough they might want a quick check to make sure you weren't going to install something completely gruesome, and maybe insist on wood, but why would it matter if it was double glazed or not?
Exactly what feks me off. Its a 300 year old house with a 30 year old extension that was built before the listing, why such controll freakary on the extension>? I'm not going to ruin the house with rubbish UPVC windows and doors, but would put quality modern fixtures and fitments. But no.Yet the house accross the road which is the same era and style isnt litsted and dont need to justify any changes....
I love the fact that the conservation officers try to preserve the property as it was at the point of listing!
I replaced 1980s Victorian-style sashes (in upvc) in my flat, back to Georgian-style sashes. Permission was granted after I submitted drawings of the proposed mouldings, and it was subject to the conditons that the windows had to be wooden and single-glazed.
Other than the fact that almost any change needs permission (never had a problem getting it), I've not found it a hassle living in a listed building.
I replaced 1980s Victorian-style sashes (in upvc) in my flat, back to Georgian-style sashes. Permission was granted after I submitted drawings of the proposed mouldings, and it was subject to the conditons that the windows had to be wooden and single-glazed.
Other than the fact that almost any change needs permission (never had a problem getting it), I've not found it a hassle living in a listed building.
z4chris99 said:
we have a G2 house, doesn't really stop you doing too much day to day, windows etc have to be certain specs but it's not too bad as long as your not looking to change the floor plate or external look.
interior wise unless it's listed in the listing your free to do as you like...
you also might find some other bits in the listing, sheds, garden walls, trees etc
We can't put up a sky dish
Wierd how you say that because there is a lovely Grade II house for sale in Truro (which i REALLY want) yet they have a dish right at the front of their house on the garage...how did they get away with that?interior wise unless it's listed in the listing your free to do as you like...
you also might find some other bits in the listing, sheds, garden walls, trees etc
We can't put up a sky dish
Edited by z4chris99 on Wednesday 5th September 22:47
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