British Gas Cowboys?
Discussion
King Herald said:
Screechmr2 said:
I can't believe you are calling someone a cowboy for looking after your mother's safety. If the flue is corroded it can cause serious combustion issues, I've had ones corrode through, only a small hole but that is enough for them to start producing 6000+ parts per million of carbon monoxide. If the engineer missed it and something happened they could be prosecuted. Death by carbon monoxide has resulted in gas engineers being imprisoned.
Flues do corrode, I've seen plenty rot away. But I guess you must know better than any gasman.
I was told that if it were a truly life endangering fault the BG guy is legally obliged to disconnect it, not just give an advisory. Not sure how true that is, but it make sense. Flues do corrode, I've seen plenty rot away. But I guess you must know better than any gasman.
Thus I would guess this rusty flue is not dangerous, yet.
I’d definitly have a carbon monoxide detector fitted in the house, in the boiler room, whatever the case. And make sure your mum knows what it means if it goes off.
HustleRussell said:
I’ve put a CO detector in for the time being as we are for the time being continuing to use the boiler.
King Herald said:
Our boiler was marked and tagged as unsafe every year, by Homecare, merely because it did not conform to the latest safety regulations. However, they are not retroactive so they cannot force us to fit a new boiler just because it is old fashioned, obsolete, and because some safety guy decided a flue now has to be a different length or shape.
I think it's a recent thing but they can disconnect a boiler now just because they're unable to inspect the flue.
Thanks everybody for the input. The usual spread of different views on this which is great.
It's not a posh boiler, it's an Ideal Classic 350 something or other and all I know is that it's at least 10 years old. BG classified it as 'at risk'. I think the engineer did ask if we wanted it disconnected but obviously it's flipping November and as ever we were not expecting out otherwise problem free boiler to be immediately condemned.
Flues do corrode, I've seen plenty rot away. But I guess you must know better than any gasman.
Rightly or wrongly I have an inherent mistrust of the gasman because I wasn't there and have only heard the story from my Mum who was understandably pretty worried / surprised about it. It looked to me like a bit of an alarmist tactic.
I now know that flues can and do corrode and this does indeed present a risk so now I can change my stance and concentrate on verifying whether the flue is corroded and investigate solutions up to and including a new boiler.
Is there a way I can inspect the flue? how would the gas man have done it?
It's not a posh boiler, it's an Ideal Classic 350 something or other and all I know is that it's at least 10 years old. BG classified it as 'at risk'. I think the engineer did ask if we wanted it disconnected but obviously it's flipping November and as ever we were not expecting out otherwise problem free boiler to be immediately condemned.
Screechmr2 said:
HustleRussell said:
My Mum has (If I remember correctly) British Gas ‘homecare’, which means they come in annually to do a safety check. This time they’ve affixed a scary looking yellow tag to the boiler basically condemning it. It actually says ‘do not use this appliance’ and ‘do not remove this label’. Obviously my Mum was a bit worried by this. I looked at the report the engineer left and it said the boiler was dangerous because the flue was rusted and could cause combustion gasses to leak into the room, and we should have a new boiler ASAP.
Forgive me for being a bit cynical but does that not sound like a bit of a b
ks reason to condemn the boiler?
I’ve not had the cover off the boiler so I’m not sure if you inspect the flue from there or whether he’s poked a borescope down the flue from outside, or if it is indeed total bks. I’m surprised they’d make the flue out of carbon steel even if galvanised given that the part where it attaches to the heat exchanger must get properly hot.
The boiler was there when we moved in 10 years ago so it’s getting on a bit but we’ve no particular cause to change it.
I’ve put a CO detector in for the time being as we are for the time being continuing to use the boiler.
I can't believe you are calling someone a cowboy for looking after your mother's safety. If the flue is corroded it can cause serious combustion issues, I've had ones corrode through, only a small hole but that is enough for them to start producing 6000+ parts per million of carbon monoxide. If the engineer missed it and something happened they could be prosecuted. Death by carbon monoxide has resulted in gas engineers being imprisoned.Forgive me for being a bit cynical but does that not sound like a bit of a b
ks reason to condemn the boiler? I’ve not had the cover off the boiler so I’m not sure if you inspect the flue from there or whether he’s poked a borescope down the flue from outside, or if it is indeed total b
ks. I’m surprised they’d make the flue out of carbon steel even if galvanised given that the part where it attaches to the heat exchanger must get properly hot. The boiler was there when we moved in 10 years ago so it’s getting on a bit but we’ve no particular cause to change it.
I’ve put a CO detector in for the time being as we are for the time being continuing to use the boiler.
Flues do corrode, I've seen plenty rot away. But I guess you must know better than any gasman.
Screechmr2 said:
immediately dangerous = it is spilling fumes or leaking gas
at risk = it might start doing it in future. poor combustion can enter a building at another point, even had them hospitalise neighbours before because the wind blew in a certain direction and the fumes entered their house.
'at risk' boilers have killed people. one day the boiler could be fine, the next it isn't. even a few hours can make a difference, just because at that 1 point in time it passed doesn't mean it'll be fine the whole time. a corroded flue can go from passing a combustion test to failing it miserably the following day, that's not to say it'll happen here but this is why the 'at risk' exists, by using this classification it means if anything now happens the gasman is not responsible, it's up to the user to take the chance.
calling someone a cowboy for following the regulations is ridiculous. i take it if your car failed an mot because the brake pads were completely shot the mot tester would be a cowboy?
Thanks for this, I should point out that 'Cowboys' was followed by a question mark and for want of a less tabloid-esque title, it seemed the best way to succinctly summarise the situation from my perspective. at risk = it might start doing it in future. poor combustion can enter a building at another point, even had them hospitalise neighbours before because the wind blew in a certain direction and the fumes entered their house.
'at risk' boilers have killed people. one day the boiler could be fine, the next it isn't. even a few hours can make a difference, just because at that 1 point in time it passed doesn't mean it'll be fine the whole time. a corroded flue can go from passing a combustion test to failing it miserably the following day, that's not to say it'll happen here but this is why the 'at risk' exists, by using this classification it means if anything now happens the gasman is not responsible, it's up to the user to take the chance.
calling someone a cowboy for following the regulations is ridiculous. i take it if your car failed an mot because the brake pads were completely shot the mot tester would be a cowboy?
Rightly or wrongly I have an inherent mistrust of the gasman because I wasn't there and have only heard the story from my Mum who was understandably pretty worried / surprised about it. It looked to me like a bit of an alarmist tactic.
I now know that flues can and do corrode and this does indeed present a risk so now I can change my stance and concentrate on verifying whether the flue is corroded and investigate solutions up to and including a new boiler.
Is there a way I can inspect the flue? how would the gas man have done it?
The current regs require regular access points into the flue for inspection to detect problems such as the one you've got. If you don't have these access points then you only have 2 options (maybe 3):
1- remove the flue to inspect it, but don't do this unless you REALLY know what you are doing
2- endoscope which is what the engineer may have used
3- torch, ladder and a visual inspection - probably not going to let you see that much though
1- remove the flue to inspect it, but don't do this unless you REALLY know what you are doing
2- endoscope which is what the engineer may have used
3- torch, ladder and a visual inspection - probably not going to let you see that much though
Sorry for trawling up an old thread, but I'm in a similar situation the OP.
British Gas Homecare inspection for my Mum's boiler (a Vaillant condensing gas boiler) has deemed it "at risk"
He hasn't shut it off, but has told her "the lining" was going, and that he would get BG to ring her with a quote for a new boiler.
If it is the flue liner that has corroded, are they replaceable or is a new boiler the only remedy?
My Mum is 92 and on state pension. Are there any schemes or grants for boiler replacement, or am i going to have to stump up ~£3k for the new one?
British Gas Homecare inspection for my Mum's boiler (a Vaillant condensing gas boiler) has deemed it "at risk"
He hasn't shut it off, but has told her "the lining" was going, and that he would get BG to ring her with a quote for a new boiler.
If it is the flue liner that has corroded, are they replaceable or is a new boiler the only remedy?
My Mum is 92 and on state pension. Are there any schemes or grants for boiler replacement, or am i going to have to stump up ~£3k for the new one?
boyse7en said:
Sorry for trawling up an old thread, but I'm in a similar situation the OP.
British Gas Homecare inspection for my Mum's boiler (a Vaillant condensing gas boiler) has deemed it "at risk"
He hasn't shut it off, but has told her "the lining" was going, and that he would get BG to ring her with a quote for a new boiler.
If it is the flue liner that has corroded, are they replaceable or is a new boiler the only remedy?
My Mum is 92 and on state pension. Are there any schemes or grants for boiler replacement, or am i going to have to stump up ~£3k for the new one?
Did he 'label' the boiler and/or leave a report? I'm assuming by "the lining" he meant the flue lining? If it needs a new flue liner then why is a new boiler needed? British Gas Homecare inspection for my Mum's boiler (a Vaillant condensing gas boiler) has deemed it "at risk"
He hasn't shut it off, but has told her "the lining" was going, and that he would get BG to ring her with a quote for a new boiler.
If it is the flue liner that has corroded, are they replaceable or is a new boiler the only remedy?
My Mum is 92 and on state pension. Are there any schemes or grants for boiler replacement, or am i going to have to stump up ~£3k for the new one?
[have just seen that it’s an old thread, but whatever]
Absolutely, they are cowboys.
I worked for them when I was a student in their contact centre.
Back then - 1996 / 7 - when the seasons changed and the temperatures dropped - they would regularly go to “water leaks only” mode.
This meant that the unofficial, unspoken rule was that unless the caller had water streaming through their property, there was no chance of an engineer visiting.
Being a paying customer, with existing cover, meant nothing as they ran on a skeleton crew.
We had to deflect, deny and distract.
After a while, we began to agree with customers that the entire set up was disgusting.
Cowboys then, Yellowstone now.
Absolutely, they are cowboys.
I worked for them when I was a student in their contact centre.
Back then - 1996 / 7 - when the seasons changed and the temperatures dropped - they would regularly go to “water leaks only” mode.
This meant that the unofficial, unspoken rule was that unless the caller had water streaming through their property, there was no chance of an engineer visiting.
Being a paying customer, with existing cover, meant nothing as they ran on a skeleton crew.
We had to deflect, deny and distract.
After a while, we began to agree with customers that the entire set up was disgusting.
Cowboys then, Yellowstone now.
dickymint said:
If it needs a new flue liner then why is a new boiler needed?
Because he's really a boiler salesman?When BG 'condemned' my boiler after a 'free check' because there was a plant growing through the wires of the external vent, after he left I cut the plant back and uncondemned it. That must have been 20 years ago and it still works.
boyse7en said:
Sorry for trawling up an old thread, but I'm in a similar situation the OP.
British Gas Homecare inspection for my Mum's boiler (a Vaillant condensing gas boiler) has deemed it "at risk"
He hasn't shut it off, but has told her "the lining" was going, and that he would get BG to ring her with a quote for a new boiler.
If it is the flue liner that has corroded, are they replaceable or is a new boiler the only remedy?
My Mum is 92 and on state pension. Are there any schemes or grants for boiler replacement, or am i going to have to stump up ~£3k for the new one?
I don't know the answer, but I would suggest contacting Vaillant directly, they are pretty helpful. You will probably need the model number of boiller (it should be written on any paperwork from BG or on the boiler itself)British Gas Homecare inspection for my Mum's boiler (a Vaillant condensing gas boiler) has deemed it "at risk"
He hasn't shut it off, but has told her "the lining" was going, and that he would get BG to ring her with a quote for a new boiler.
If it is the flue liner that has corroded, are they replaceable or is a new boiler the only remedy?
My Mum is 92 and on state pension. Are there any schemes or grants for boiler replacement, or am i going to have to stump up ~£3k for the new one?
There's an online technical contact form here: https://www.vaillant.co.uk/contact/technical-help/
No affiliation with Vaillant but they did honour a warranty for our boiler after about 4 years. (Their warranty duration depends on who installs it).
BG horror story: moved recently, water dripping out of the boiler, and seemed to be running constantly. BG had signed it off without any comment every year since the boiler was installed. Local Vaillant-certified engineer came out and said it had been installed incorrectly (with a test connection left inserted) and needed £600 of work to repair various corroded bits.
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