Ive hit a power cable in my garden digging out a tree root
Discussion
As others have said HSG47 has you ‘bang to rights’ as regards the requirement for safe dig procedures (obtain stats, cat scan, mark, hand dig trial holes).The fact it is on private land is irrelevant and to be brutally honest if it was an HV cable you have been fortunate you / fellow ‘diggers’ weren’t hurt- I assume you scraped the cable rather than severed it as the possibility of a flash fire / explosion is very real if HV conductors are damaged.
Anyways, from several years experience in utilities contracting I’d absolutely suggest getting a full invoice breakdown and querying everything in minute detail. Most utility companies (UC) can sometimes ‘guild the lily’ on what costs are, especially if it involves an out of hours call out. If a third party contractor (rather then direct employed labour) was used for excavation work a big unknown could well be ‘contractor’s costs’ as these will be their agreed rate per occurrence (usually with something like a 50% or higher uplift by the utility for processing the work order and invoice!). Be aware of emergency call out costs being charged for which may not apply if the contractor turned up next day. Also be aware you will have to concede on some of the seemingly unproductive labour for the like of banksman etc. with diggers as these are obviously actually needed.
Depending on the invoice detail, I’d be asking to meet someone from the UC to present them with the evidence (I assume you have good photos?) of the unprotected / not marked cable. Unfortunately the ‘depth of cover’ ace card will be a non-starter as 450mm d-o-c is not unreasonable. The comment about ‘embedded in concrete’ may be worth thinking about however- no cable should ever be directly concrete encased, the H&S implications are obvious, but there again you hadn’t followed safe digging procedures. Meeting them will also enable you to discuss the work and materials you supplied, this may have some leverage if the dig team was directly employed, less so if it was a contractor as the UC’s attitude will be ‘you were just helping out our contractor’. I’d also be asking them about their duty of care to householders now there is evidence of their unmarked, possibly encased HV cable crossing their properties if only from being a bit of a pain in the arse to them.
So be a bit of a thorn in their side as regards querying stuff. You may get lucky and the UC’s guy / damage team may not have the heart for a battle. In my time I had a few results where I got full costs withdrawn simply by querying the detail, on other occasions if they really stuck to their guns we had to pay up in full. We were pretty ‘fierced up’ as a utilities contractor though, always obtained stat plans before starting, always had evidenced sign off of underground RF scans for buried services before digging etc.- to be fair 2 areas on which you have no defence (... sorry).
Anyways, from several years experience in utilities contracting I’d absolutely suggest getting a full invoice breakdown and querying everything in minute detail. Most utility companies (UC) can sometimes ‘guild the lily’ on what costs are, especially if it involves an out of hours call out. If a third party contractor (rather then direct employed labour) was used for excavation work a big unknown could well be ‘contractor’s costs’ as these will be their agreed rate per occurrence (usually with something like a 50% or higher uplift by the utility for processing the work order and invoice!). Be aware of emergency call out costs being charged for which may not apply if the contractor turned up next day. Also be aware you will have to concede on some of the seemingly unproductive labour for the like of banksman etc. with diggers as these are obviously actually needed.
Depending on the invoice detail, I’d be asking to meet someone from the UC to present them with the evidence (I assume you have good photos?) of the unprotected / not marked cable. Unfortunately the ‘depth of cover’ ace card will be a non-starter as 450mm d-o-c is not unreasonable. The comment about ‘embedded in concrete’ may be worth thinking about however- no cable should ever be directly concrete encased, the H&S implications are obvious, but there again you hadn’t followed safe digging procedures. Meeting them will also enable you to discuss the work and materials you supplied, this may have some leverage if the dig team was directly employed, less so if it was a contractor as the UC’s attitude will be ‘you were just helping out our contractor’. I’d also be asking them about their duty of care to householders now there is evidence of their unmarked, possibly encased HV cable crossing their properties if only from being a bit of a pain in the arse to them.
So be a bit of a thorn in their side as regards querying stuff. You may get lucky and the UC’s guy / damage team may not have the heart for a battle. In my time I had a few results where I got full costs withdrawn simply by querying the detail, on other occasions if they really stuck to their guns we had to pay up in full. We were pretty ‘fierced up’ as a utilities contractor though, always obtained stat plans before starting, always had evidenced sign off of underground RF scans for buried services before digging etc.- to be fair 2 areas on which you have no defence (... sorry).
Edited by darren f on Sunday 9th December 09:37
bmwmike said:
V40TC said:
Ask for a breakdown of the losses
and cost of materials used.
I too would send them a return invoice for £4.5k digger rental by return.
if they can make up charges then so can you.
if they reply "that is ridiculous" then reply " well you started it"
they will not pay out compensation to the homes isolated
they have an unmarked buried cable on your land.
I cannot see there losses add up to the stupid sum they have invoiced you for.
I would not pay
even till I was taken to court
if I lost,
ask for time to pay and drag it out as long as I humanly could.
This is what I'd do. Maybe even more than 4.5k and let them try and knock you down a bit. Who knows, you may even make money out of it. and cost of materials used.
I too would send them a return invoice for £4.5k digger rental by return.
if they can make up charges then so can you.
if they reply "that is ridiculous" then reply " well you started it"
they will not pay out compensation to the homes isolated
they have an unmarked buried cable on your land.
I cannot see there losses add up to the stupid sum they have invoiced you for.
I would not pay
even till I was taken to court
if I lost,
ask for time to pay and drag it out as long as I humanly could.
Anyone know if OP can charge them ground rent or tell them to put the cable deeper?
Chrisgr31 said:
I had no idea you were supposed to scan before digging, let alone ask the utility companies where there supplies are. Personally I assumed one would be told when buying a house if you had a supply to someone else running through part of it. After all ypu have a vague chance of knowing where your own supply is.
I'd like to know more about wayleaves and easements as its obvious if you have a telegraph pole, a cable or pipe is less obvious!
I'd also like to know more about wayleaves and easements. I thought looking on the net there was ment to be a new wayleave signed very time some1 new owned the property I'd like to know more about wayleaves and easements as its obvious if you have a telegraph pole, a cable or pipe is less obvious!
Rovinghawk said:
Chrisgr31 said:
I had no idea you were supposed to scan before digging, let alone ask the utility companies where there supplies are.
If you don't know enough about digging to not know this then why the hell were you driving a mechanical digger?We hit a gas line while digging out a few months back, was only ~250mm below the top soil, "engineers" came out to repair it, literally there 30 mins and was told to expect about £600 bill for it, sent the below photo to them saying we would dispute it due to it being so close to surface, anyone digging the garden over would put a fork/spade through it!
Never had a bill for it.
Never had a bill for it.
Condi said:
Having worked on farms for years and years, where everyone has a digger and goes about digging holes for all sorts of random reasons, nobody I know has ever scanned the ground beforehand. As a householder the thought wouldn't even cross most people's mind.
Same as me too but I work in a quarry now. I never thought there would be a cable there we know we have a water pipe in there as was on are paper workCondi said:
Having worked on farms for years and years, where everyone has a digger and goes about digging holes for all sorts of random reasons, nobody I know has ever scanned the ground beforehand. As a householder the thought wouldn't even cross most people's mind.
Fair comment but there is a whole heap of difference digging holes in rural locations compared to anywhere within a populated residential area, it’s all about assessing the risk- part of the issue is that most utility runs in private property (certainly beyond the boundary of the ‘street’) is poorly mapped and in the case of many ‘individual supply’ runs usually not recorded at all. Having said that I’d be Cat or RF scanning any location before I allowed a mechanical digger bucket break the ground. Indeed, at the utility contractor I worked for it was an instant dismissal situation if a utility strike happened without evidence of such a pre-start scan being in place. Going back to the rural location scenario, there are big HV cables in many unlikely places these days (think where wind and solar farms are located), I’d really not take a chance that there may or may not be a shallow and unmarked 33kV cable in that post hole being dug 
No help to the OP but if it was an HV run I’d be astonished if it was not shown on record plans and this will be part of the UtilCo’s case. Again if it was HV they may even have a policy of only ‘non invasive’ vacuum excavation being suitable in the vicinity. I now work for national contractor and any work within a ‘live service’ zone is now carried out like this.
bmwmike said:
Didn't realise high voltage lines were run underground in such a haphazard and careless way. Interesting thread. What happens if a 33kv line develops a fault and electrifies someone's garden - say if it was boggy or wet - electrocution? Does this happen or are there safeguards.?
There is protection in the network. However, it has happenedLook up step potential, and the horses at Newbury Racecourse that got electrocuted. I used to do this for a living. Specifically locating all cables for the likes of SSE and other DNOs. 33kv are the small ones...Even NG voltages (400kv) have some runs that are buried. Bizarrely, the higher voltage cables can be harder to locate passively (CAT tool versus Radio Detection type tools work with an inducted radio frequency) because the phases are more balanced, releasing less EMF. A full survey would also include the use of GPR, which does not rely on anything emitted from the target. As others have said, if it was an HV cable, I’m pleased you are uninjured.
Rovinghawk said:
If you don't know enough about digging to not know this then why the hell were you driving a mechanical digger?
I wasn't! I was using a post hole digger! https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p16835?r=googlesh...Day6480 said:
No I havnt will check this out later,so if it is you can't get it moved even tho it's on my land
Very,very unlikely. When was the cable put in? Who owned the land when it was put in?How much of your land does it run under? Why do you want or need it removed? How many people are connected to it? Marker tiles/tape/sand is a new thing.Old school cables were just thrown in the ground bare. Some of these old cables had nothing more than bitumen and paper insulation between the phases.
Edited by normalbloke on Wednesday 12th December 17:09
normalbloke said:
Very,very unlikely. Where are you located?(ie which DNO are you under?)When was the cable put in? Who owned the land when it was put in?How much of your land does it run under? Why do you want or need it removed? How many people are connected to it?
Western power. Think it was 60 odd years ago think it was council when it was put in. Runs across top of my garden want to put a garage there. Think it goes from a poll in the field into a box in a car parkDay6480 said:
Western power. Think it was 60 odd years ago think it was council when it was put in. Runs across top of my garden want to put a garage there. Think it goes from a poll in the field into a box in a car park
Sorry, I edited my posted as I didn’t notice you’d mentioned WP in your original post. Does the pole have a transformer on it?Reading the comments oh this incident quoting wages people not working etc,everything has to be done correctly, as a guy has jumped on a digger and pulled a HV cable and is upset with the bill ,luckily no injuries,we have been to a few cable strikes and believe me life changing injuries to young lads and men is awful ,and the first question is who told you to do the work ?or who put you to work and ,liability of going to jail Or a hefty fine ,and seeing that person suffer ,you got off lightly to just start excavating with a machine is pure ignorance.
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