Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it

[anonymous-user]

TheBinarySheep said:

digimeistter said:

https://www.legalforlandlords.co.uk/section-8-grou...

I don't think that link takes into account the changes made to notice periods during the Covid crisis.

Yes just noticed that. Sorry

https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/section-21-and...

[TheBinarySheep]

digimeistter said:

Yes just noticed that. Sorry

https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/section-21-and...

So looking at that. If the tenant is in less than 6 month of arrears, we have to give them 6 month notice. Once they're in 6 month of arrears then we only need to give them 4 weeks notice.

It seems to make sense to sit back until next month, hope they don't make any more payments and raise a section 8 in February on the grounds of unpaid rent and breach of tenancy agreement (failure to provide access for repairs/inspections). The only issue with waiting until next month is, if they do make a payment in February, then we'll have to raise a section 8 (6 month notice) and will have wasted a month waiting.

[bobbysmithy]

TheBinarySheep said:

So looking at that. If the tenant is in less than 6 month of arrears, we have to give them 6 month notice. Once they're in 6 month of arrears then we only need to give them 4 weeks notice.

It seems to make sense to sit back until next month, hope they don't make any more payments and raise a section 8 in February on the grounds of unpaid rent and breach of tenancy agreement (failure to provide access for repairs/inspections).

See post by wings at 2320 last night. There was another with good advice among the many posts.

[TheBinarySheep]

Wings said:

It is always preferable for a landlord/agent to make an appointment to either inspect, attend a boiler and/or another type of repair, then to attend in person at the appointed time. Only then, by the tenant refusing access to the landlord/agent/contractor etc., will the court recognise that the tenant has refused access.

In the OP's situation, I would be talking to local neighbours of the rental property, and try to obtain some local information on the tenant/s, occupants, property etc.

I would already have served a Section 8 Notice on the tenant, 4 weeks Notice for over 6 months rental arrears, under 6 months arrears 6 months Notice. Section 21 Notice if preferred needs a 6 months Notice, but is in force for 10 months

Lots of hurdles a landlord needs to cross before a valid Notice can be served, and if in doubt the OP should ensure any Deposit monies are protected, either under the original Assured Tenancy Agreement, and/or a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.

Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate.

In thirty plus years of being a landlord, I have only ever had one tenant refuse me inspection access to a property, that end with the property being completely trashed, with many months of unpaid rent, and police in attendance when the bailiffs removed the tenants.

Apologies, I missed this one.

You suggest raising a section 8 notice. The tenant is 5 month in arrears, would you suggest raising a section 8 now anyway giving 6 month notice, or wait until next month, hope they don't make a rent payment and then issue a section 8 giving 4 weeks notice?

I've drove past the property a couple of times, it looks ok outside other than some rubbish and an old fridge/freezer in the yard. We used to live in the property so we still know the neighbours. There were some concerns initially from a neighbour about screaming and shouting during the night, but she didn't want us to get involved and was handling it herself. The local council have some concerns about the female tenant which relate to abuse/domestic abuse, so we suspect that she has an abusive/protective partner (based on the information we've gathered).

Any deposit paid by the tenant was put in the DPS (https://depositprotection.com/switch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA6Or_BRC_ARIsAPzuer_aYp_JfeGZGvQnvrAGBk4KYYAtJL5qHSPwA-4E1ggFYEAzZ5kgmcEaAkPTEALw_wcB) as soon as we received it. The tenancy started in May 2020 so the tenant was provided with a copy of the gas safety cert which was valid at the time, along with a copy of the "How to rent leaflet".

[Wacky Racer]

TheBinarySheep said:

Total money received since they moved in £1,609.96

We should have received at £3,555 excluding deposit. Rent is £395 per calendar month.

So looking in the bright side (I know it's difficult) You have had £1600 whereas if the house was empty you would have had zilch.

I appreciate this does not jn any way make up for the stress you have had to endure.....

[bobbysmithy]

Wacky Racer said:

So looking in the bright side (I know it's difficult) You have had £1600 whereas if the house was empty you would have had zilch.

I appreciate this does not jn any way make up for the stress you have had to endure.....

Well, costs for damage are not known yet

[The_Nugget]

OP, I’m not an expert.

Looking from the outside in...your desired outcome is the tenant out.

What is the simplest path to that?

Sounds like You can give them 4 weeks notice if in arrears in Feb. Do that.
You need a Gas Cert it seems. They know that and are obstructing.
I’d stump for an engineer to attend, fix the boiler and do the safety inspection at the same time.
Don’t go there, you don’t need to.

This boiler breakdown is actually an opportunity. You’ve been trying to arrange the cert visit...they are constantly “unavailable”. Now they are inviting your suitably qualified person in ASAP. Do that and it removes your impediment.

Anything else about arrears, rent etc is irrelevant at this point. That’s just your next opportunity to evict them.

[TheBinarySheep]

Wacky Racer said:

So looking in the bright side (I know it's difficult) You have had £1600 whereas if the house was empty you would have had zilch.

I appreciate this does not jn any way make up for the stress you have had to endure.....

In the meantime we've pulled out almost £5k in mortgage payment and landlords insurance. We're currently -£4,400 and that's not including any repairs we'll have to do or any legal fees we might need to pay to evict them. Yet another year where this property costs us money at the end of the year.

In hindsight, we wish we'd just sold the property back in 2009 when we moved out. We did have a run where the same tenant lived in the house for three years, up until the point where he stopped paying his rent as well and we have to serve a section 21 to evict him.

Edited by TheBinarySheep on Sunday 10th January 10:34

[Simpo Two]

bobbysmithy said:

See post by wings at 2320 last night. There was another with good advice among the many posts.

Wings knows his stuff, he's a professional landlord who's dealt with this sort of thing many times himself, and his input helped me get my tenant out some years ago.

[98elise]

TheBinarySheep said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

I was going to say. You leant someone their half paid deposit back. Why?

Because we're bloody idiots and we're far too soft.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Most landlords learnt the same way. Until you've been done over by crap tenant you tend to think people are basically honest.

[Nath911t]

Ideally get whoever fixes/inspects the boiler to be accompanied by a work colleague or/and wear a small camera or mobile phone discreetly positioned in the event she fabricates any tales of the unexpected. She sounds mentally unstable.

This is what I would do. It may also show you the condition of the property.

[TheBinarySheep]

Simpo Two said:

Wings knows his stuff, he's a professional landlord who's dealt with this sort of thing many times himself, and his input helped me get my tenant out some years ago.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know that, but now I do I'll apply more weight to his advice.

[TheBinarySheep]

bobbysmithy said:

See post by wings at 2320 last night. There was another with good advice among the many posts.

Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to dig that out for me.

[Thats What She Said]

The_Nugget said:

OP, I’m not an expert.

Looking from the outside in...your desired outcome is the tenant out.

What is the simplest path to that?

Sounds like You can give them 4 weeks notice if in arrears in Feb. Do that.
You need a Gas Cert it seems. They know that and are obstructing.
I’d stump for an engineer to attend, fix the boiler and do the safety inspection at the same time.
Don’t go there, you don’t need to.

This boiler breakdown is actually an opportunity. You’ve been trying to arrange the cert visit...they are constantly “unavailable”. Now they are inviting your suitably qualified person in ASAP. Do that and it removes your impediment.

Anything else about arrears, rent etc is irrelevant at this point. That’s just your next opportunity to evict them.

In theory this sounds ok, but... The tenant knows what what, and is playing the OP for a fool. The OP has already said that the tenant is likely to only give the engineer access to fix the boiler. The tenant knows it's in her interest not to allow a gas safety cert to be issued, so wont provide access to the rest of the house (cooker/fire etc) to enable sign off of the safety cert.

Op you're in a bit of a sticky situation. As I see it you really only have a couple of options

- Hire a professional to get them evicted
- Pay them to get out (this has risks associated though, so not advisable)
- Go full PH and get a couple of big, handy lads to get them to leave (don't do this)

Stop treating them with kindness and empathy. They see it as weakness, only to be exploited.

[The_Nugget]

Thats What She Said said:

In theory this sounds ok, but... The tenant knows what what, and is playing the OP for a fool. The OP has already said that the tenant is likely to only give the engineer access to fix the boiler. The tenant knows it's in her interest not to allow a gas safety cert to be issued, so wont provide access to the rest of the house (cooker/fire etc) to enable sign off of the safety cert.

Op you're in a bit of a sticky situation. As I see it you really only have a couple of options

- Hire a professional to get them evicted
- Pay them to get out (this has risks associated though, so not advisable)
- Go full PH and get a couple of big, handy lads to get them to leave (don't do this)

Stop treating them with kindness and empathy. They see it as weakness, only to be exploited.

I’d present it as a fait accompli. The tenant has evaded the gas cert by not being available. Get the tenant to agree that they are available for an engineer visit. Then advise the engineer will also carry out the safety inspection. Engineer attends. If refused, document it.

[TheBinarySheep]

This situation may not occur, but, if I receive a call from the tenants engineer saying that they can fix the problem with the boiler for £x at my cost, is it reasonable for me to reject? or would I just be seen as being awkward?

I have this feeling that she's going to get an engineer out and tell them that the landlord will be paying for the repair, so I'll get a call asking me to authorise the repair from the engineer.

[cptsideways]

Get the engineer to condemn the boiler and shut it off rather conveniently

[DoubleD]

TheBinarySheep said:

This situation may not occur, but, if I receive a call from the tenants engineer saying that they can fix the problem with the boiler for £x at my cost, is it reasonable for me to reject? or would I just be seen as being awkward?

I have this feeling that she's going to get an engineer out and tell them that the landlord will be paying for the repair, so I'll get a call asking me to authorise the repair from the engineer.

Be there when the engineer is, then you can discuss it with him. Don't take anymore crap off this tennant about how that's not possible.

[The_Nugget]

TheBinarySheep said:

This situation may not occur, but, if I receive a call from the tenants engineer saying that they can fix the problem with the boiler for £x at my cost, is it reasonable for me to reject? or would I just be seen as being awkward?

I have this feeling that she's going to get an engineer out and tell them that the landlord will be paying for the repair, so I'll get a call asking me to authorise the repair from the engineer.

In my opinion, allowing them to get their engineer is a mistake.
You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.

My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.

[Thats What She Said]

TheBinarySheep said:

This situation may not occur, but, if I receive a call from the tenants engineer saying that they can fix the problem with the boiler for £x at my cost, is it reasonable for me to reject? or would I just be seen as being awkward?

I have this feeling that she's going to get an engineer out and tell them that the landlord will be paying for the repair, so I'll get a call asking me to authorise the repair from the engineer.

You've shot yourself in the foot by allowing them to take control of it. It's not in their best interests to keep the costs down. They will likely call someone like British Gas who will charge £xxx to fix it (no doubt they will need to replace X/Y/Z on the boiler to get it working). Alternaitively you could have arranged for a local indy to take a look and fix it for £xx.

Either get it sorted yourself and take responibility for it, or be prepared to bend over for British Gas.